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2022 Queen Mother Champion Chase

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Deleted member 4957

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Prices at 23/3/21

Shishkin 6/4
Allaho 8/1
Put The Kettle On 10/1
Chacum Por Soi 12/1
Energumene 16/1 (was 25/1)
Nube Negra 20/1
Envoi Allen 25/1
Allmankind 33/1
 
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I’ll go first then!

Shishkin v Energumene

Discuss!
 
Shishkin for me. He is the speedier of the two, has already won around Cheltenham and appreciates decent ground. Energumene is yet to see Cheltenham, has a tendency to jump right at a few, is better with a bit of dig in the ground so could be caught out on Spring ground. Henderson is the master trainer of Champion Chase winners. Mullins has never won the race. Easy decision........ Shishkin.
 
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This is far from a two horse race.
Reigning champion PTKO has to be a threat, Chacun came there tanking and with different tactics could go very close, then there’s all those hard luck stories from last years race that included runner up Nube Negra, Greanateen and Sceau Royal, there’s the possibility of the 2020 champion Politilogue returning then there’s the outside chance of an Envoi Allen or a Chantry House coming here.
I’m not saying they’re all potential champion chasers but the discussion extends beyond two horses that’s for sure…
 
Interesting Mullins has muted the possibility of Chacun Pour Soi coming over to the UK.

I imagine we will try to keep them apart for as long as we can. It’s possible Chacun could [go to England]. He’s a horse that might travel more. He’s mature enough now,” Mullins said.
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All eyes would be on a Tingle Creek match up between Shishkin but despite UDS lining up for it regularly I’d be doubtful and actually I think it would be far better (for connections) if they were to go to the Schloer Chase at the November meeting and see whether the course / travelling really is an issue. For me, i’m very much willing to give him another shot and am not discounting him at all. He was by far the best 2 mile chaser last year overall and on another day, with a change of tactics he’d be a fair bit better than that Champion Chase run.

If the pair do get kept apart it’s very hard to see Energumene not mop up the 2 mile races with absolute ease in Ireland.
 
Couldn't help but be taken by how much Nicholls loves Hitman. He's still to do it on the track really, but he's 151 from only 5 stars in the UK as a 5yo. We know how Nicholls likes to bring them along. He's Haldon Cup bound by the sounds of it and that's a race Nicholl's has used well in the past for his decent 2 milers. Personally speaking i'd like to think he has more left under the bonnet than Greaneteen did last year who won it off the same mark. He ran well in a QMCC and won at Sandown after.

Saying that he's only 25/1 with cashout, and Nicholls doesn't put everything towards Cheltenham like most do so i'm reluctant to pull the trigger. Nevermind the fact Shishkin enters the fray this year.....
 
Bollinger said:
I’ll go first then!

Shishkin v Energumene

Discuss!
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PTKO! :highly_amused: I love her and backed her last year, but I can't see them finishing in a bunch this time round...
I think Shishkin and Energumene are both top class and whoever loses (if they both turn up of course!) will prove to have been unlucky to be in the same era as the other. Energumene had a slight tendency to jump right in the Irish Arkle but that didn't seem apparent at all at Punchestown, much more straightforward round of jumping, he scuffed the last 2 fences a bit but they were lazy style jumps than tired, he was under no sort of pressure and had the race completely his own way. Shishkin was similar in the Arkle, pecks slightly on landing at the last fence but was under no pressure and won on the bridle. I don't think there's much at all between them, preference would have to be for Shishkin though given he has the experience of 2 Cheltenham victories in the bag including a Supreme where all sorts went wrong around him. Quality, experience and character.
 
Bollinger said:
I’ll go first then!

Shishkin v Energumene

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Wouldnt discount Chacun.
I'd certainly forgive him for the 2021 renewal run. Tactics wrong.
would love to see a punchestown type ride, set off quick, use his jumping and see if he can get the rest in trouble.
Energumene whilst having looked visually good hasnt done anything like Chacun yet. The Irish novice 2m chasers last year - Franco, Blackbow, Captain Guiness were not a good bunch.

I know Willie has spoken about England more often this year for Chacun as a possibility. Wonder would Kempton at Christmas be in his thoughts more so than the tingle creek?
Could start at Cork again for the hilly way and then go to kempton.
Wonder is there an intermediate chase Energumene could start in (or perhaps the John Durkan) before Leopardstown at Christmas.
 
Istabraq said:
This is far from a two horse race.
Reigning champion PTKO has to be a threat, Chacun came there tanking and with different tactics could go very close, then there’s all those hard luck stories from last years race that included runner up Nube Negra, Greanateen and Sceau Royal, there’s the possibility of the 2020 champion Politilogue returning then there’s the outside chance of an Envoi Allen or a Chantry House coming here.
I’m not saying they’re all potential champion chasers but the discussion extends beyond two horses that’s for sure…
Click to expand...

I think the fact they all finished in a bit of a heap shows there all very similar level good horses, whereas Shiskin and Energumene have the potential to be Great.
 
Has the potential to be the race of the meeting doesn’t it. Shiskin,energuneme, Chacun, nube negra (who could quite possibly still be improving) and then the reigning champ PTKO.

Im in the shiskin camp as there’s no substitute to Cheltenham and especially festival form and the program over here will set him up nicely for the big day. Tingle creak, Clarence House, champion chase. Are there any to remain unbeaten specials about this season?!
 
Hardy Eustace said:
Has the potential to be the race of the meeting doesn’t it. Shiskin,energuneme, Chacun, nube negra (who could quite possibly still be improving) and then the reigning champ PTKO.

Im in the shiskin camp as there’s no substitute to Cheltenham and especially festival form and the program over here will set him up nicely for the big day. Tingle creak, Clarence House, champion chase. Are there any to remain unbeaten specials about this season?!
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I think Sky were the only ones doing the unbeaten specials last season, I've requested a few this season (AI, Bob and GDC) and they said "we are not looking to offer a market on horses to remain unbeaten".

I'm sure I've seen other people request it too (Lbur possibly? won't let me @ him) and they got a similar response.
 
Dandrew99 said:
I think Sky were the only ones doing the unbeaten specials last season, I've requested a few this season (AI, Bob and GDC) and they said "we are not looking to offer a market on horses to remain unbeaten".

I'm sure I've seen other people request it too (Lbur possibly? won't let me @ him) and they got a similar response.
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Argh shame. I’m pretty sure the shiskin one hurt them last year and I imagine that is the why they are being so defensive this year.
 
Only horse I’ve got to remain unbeaten is Ferny Hollow @ 14/1 with W Hills. 3 runs minimum.
 
Hardy Eustace said:
Has the potential to be the race of the meeting doesn’t it. Shiskin,energuneme, Chacun, nube negra (who could quite possibly still be improving) and then the reigning champ PTKO.

Im in the shiskin camp as there’s no substitute to Cheltenham and especially festival form and the program over here will set him up nicely for the big day. Tingle creak, Clarence House, champion chase. Are there any to remain unbeaten specials about this season?!
Click to expand...

I’m sure I’ve seen one for Shishkin winning the Tingle Creek, Clarence House & Champion Chase @ 3/1.
Different to remaining unbeaten but if he wins all those I’ll be shocked if he’s not unbeaten!
 
Stormez said:
I’m sure I’ve seen one for Shishkin winning the Tingle Creek, Clarence House & Champion Chase @ 3/1.
Different to remaining unbeaten but if he wins all those I’ll be shocked if he’s not unbeaten!
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Wait for Hendo to send him to Sandown in April on good to firm, 7 fences down the back straight whilst going quicker than he's ever travelled.
Eyes closed emoji...
 
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These horses will be coming out soon, a whole host of last year's novices lining up in the Haldon Gold Cup in early November.

PTKO and Politalogue going for the shloer

Shiskin, Nube Negra, Greanateen, first flow and maybe one of Willie's in the Tingle Creek.

Should be a cracking 6 weeks

Graham Rodway completely writing off PTKO chances in the big racing post preview on Mon saying she was a lucky winner and would have been beaten in another few strides... we all have opinions but...
 
Dessie the great said:
These horses will be coming out soon, a whole host of last year's novices lining up in the Haldon Gold Cup in early November.

PTKO and Politalogue going for the shloer

Shiskin, Nube Negra, Greanateen, first flow and maybe one of Willie's in the Tingle Creek.

Should be a cracking 6 weeks

Graham Rodway completely writing off PTKO chances in the big racing post preview on Mon saying she was a lucky winner and would have been beaten in another few strides... we all have opinions but...
Click to expand...

Rodway is by far one of the biggest fools who has a history of making daft claims time and time again.
 
Madmoose said:
Rodway is by far one of the biggest fools who has a history of making daft claims time and time again.
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He reminds me of Mike Parry with his wacky views. He's good value but not to be taken too seriously imo.
 
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