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2017 Cheltenham Gold Cup

A performance out of the top draw by Thistlecrack!

My initial reaction was that he'd win the Gold Cup, and win it easily but having watched the race 4 times since I'm starting to doubt it. He travels so powerfully and attacks his fences like no other staying chaser that I'm worried the extended 3 miles might just be a step too far.

Thoughts??
 
I'd say that based on what we saw, if he stands up, he wins the Gold Cup.

I've now had tiome to watch it back and think that he managed to put the race to bed before 3 out, popped the last and got eased down - all without being asked any serious questions by Tom Scu. He may have had nothing left, but there is still a chance that there is, so he would not look vulnerable to any other horse in training to me.

The only issue would be the fences... but he cleared them all no matter where he leapt from.

In terms of the market for this race, the reaction to put Cue Card to 12/1 is too much of an over reaction... He is now a bigger price than Coneygree which is not easy to argue a case for. It could happen of course, but I'd sooner back Cue Card each way now, than Coneyfree at 8s or Thistlecrack at even....
 
I loved watching Thistlecrack yesterday, could be an absolute star of the game.
However, and I hate to drag the hype down because I love the horse, he still gives me the impression he doesn't respect his fences and takes the odd chance, yesterday they went proper racing speed but he had only 4 for company and only one genuine challenger, the Gold Cup could see him with 15 rivals and it could be different.
I'd love to see him win a Gold Cup 15l and we can hail a superstar but those obstacles put a very small doubt in my mind....
 
Interesting that Joe Tizz and Colin Tizz have both suggested Cue Card could go for the Ryanair... I thought pushing CC to 12s was a bit of an over reaction and was about to have a little bit each way, but best priced 6 for the Ryanair has stopped me in my tracks.

Interesting to see what the Lexus does..... either Djakadam or Valseur Lido will become 2nd fav with an impressive victory? I'd pin my colours to the Djakadam mast, so I hope he does win the Lexus. Djakadam is a key horse, having placed twice and is as good a yardstick as we have to see how good this years renewal may (or may not) be.
 
Having backed Djakadam at 16s each way before he raced this season... to see him now back to 16s in a place isn't so bad.

I was going to put forward the case that he only had a couple of weeks to recover from his seasonal re-appearance and therefore can be marked up...however then I realised Outlander was in the same race :very_drunk:

If I wasn't involved in this market yet, I would see that 16s about a horse that has placed in the GC twice, just placed in the Lexus who is being targeted for that race in the Spring would probably be how I would play it....
 
Could he be another that might go for the Ryanair? That would be my worry if I was backing him.
 
Could he be another that might go for the Ryanair? That would be my worry if I was backing him.

I wouldn't have thought so. Ricci has no other contender, Walsh has nothing that would be less than a 20/1 shot unless he took a Gigginstown 2nd or 3rd string... and they have UDS, Black Hercules, VVM as realistic Ryanair horses?

Obviously you're right, they could but I'd be more confident regarding Djakadam's target than a number of other stable horses?
 
I am against thistlecrack at present prices.

I can definitely see the logic there mayo but is there a solid alternative at the moment ?
Coneygree unlikely to make the race, Djakadam beaten for the 5th time in last 6 runs yesterday, Valseur Lido massively disappointing (unless valid excuse appears), I'm starting to wonder who the alternative is...
 
I'm tempted to back Minella Rocco at 50/1. Purely on the 4 miler form line. I'm neck deep on Thistlecrack so I need an alternative!
 
The only viable alternative I can come up with is Native River but is Tizzard likely to run him in this ?
He's already had two brutal races in the Hennesy and Welsh National.

On the 4m form Minella Rocco has to have a chance and that 50s might not be a bad shout....
 
NR will go here. CT has already shown he'll run the horses in the most suitable races. The only thing that puts me off is his prcice
 
Are you on already FM ?
I'm just about to take some of that 50s Minella Rocco.

I've also had a small play on Zabana who I know they really fancied in the JLT last year when the starter ruined his chance, he has some stamina questions to answer but thrives on Spring ground and could easily play a part
 
I can't get the 50 - account blocked. I'm going to back him in the next couple of days though. I'm just trying to find out if all is well after him fall at Aintree.
 
I can't get the 50 - account blocked. I'm going to back him in the next couple of days though. I'm just trying to find out if all is well after him fall at Aintree.

You can have some of mine if you want FM, I wouldn't have looked at the horse until you mentioned him...
 
The King George was the only race I managed to watch live this Christmas period and i'm only now able to go through catching up watching back all the racing. I'm glad I picked the KG as the one race to watch - a stunning performance and I cannot see any horse beating Thistecrack - if he gets round he wins

I've read a couple of reactions on the race in trying to downplay the form but I cannot see it. The bunched finish is far from a concern for me. I do think Cue Card ran below his Haydock form but I think that track in particular probably suits the horse perfectly so it's no surprise that he couldn't match that effort. Add in his suiting for softer ground and that he likely suffered by serving it up to TC it allowed the other horses to gain strides in the closing stages.

The result may show as only 3.25L's but it could have been so much more. Just look at Paddy Brennan's reaction after the race - he was in disbelief of just how good TC was and had no excuses for being beaten. Tom Scudamore was celebrating halfway up the running with the horse eased down. The amount of pressure on Tom Scuadmore is huge for this horse, having built up such a lead before the final 2 fences he just had to get over them, just look at Might Bite and Daryl Jacob a few races before!! A mistake on a horse like that can be brushed over but imagine if Scudamore had done the same on TC in the King George - he would have been vilified and i'm sure questions asked whether a different jockey should be onboard. On that note credit should go to the jockey and his riding of the horse.

I see no issue in the extended Gold Cup trip - I still think he had a lot left in the tank and could have gone on again if asked. It doesn't guarantee he'll stay but this clip is something that sticks in my mind

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Paul Morrison on Thistlecrack: Look at the width of this horse's chest - he is double, maybe triple their size? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheOpen?src=hash">#TheOpen</a> <a href="https://t.co/MKuaaaDGVe">pic.twitter.com/MKuaaaDGVe</a></p>— Racing UK (@Racing_UK) <a href="https://twitter.com/Racing_UK/status/797425980025356288">November 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also would a Gold Cup of 15 odd runners really inconvenience the horse now? The concern before the King George was that having top quality horses jumping upside him could inconvenience the horse and make him prone to mistakes. He started the race jumping behind Silviniaco Conti without issue and then later on in the race had Cue Card coming up jumping upside him and that again caused him no issues. So for me i'm now looking at the list in 2 sections:

Native River
Don Cossack - I'd be amazed if Elliott can get Don Cossack back to compete with this horse after such a bad injury
Coneygree - I very much doubt he'll will run in the Gold Cup and have a strong feeling they may retire the horse (sadly)
Cue Card - likely Ryanair bound
Djakadam

Outlander / Valseur Lido / Douvan / Empire of Dirt / Josses Hill / Kotkikova / Don poli / Zabana / VVM / Noble Endeavour / Minella Rocco...

Many of those horses will either go Ryanair or elsewhere or just aren't up to TC's class. To me they'll end up in a similar position to the other horses in the King George where as Thistlecrack will race prominently and hardly see them. If I had to have a bet on how many runners will line up i'd say 9-10 would be the absolute max anyway. I guess if you had the likes of Native River, Many Clouds jumping from the front with Djakadam just behind it would be a tougher test but not a huge concern.

I'm eager to see how the horse copes with the open ditches at Cheltenham on Trials Day. Not because I think he won't be able to cope with them but they seem to really be the only blotches on his jumping fences so far especially how far the horses stands off open ditches!

I'm desperate to back the horse again somehow as he's as much of a banker for the festival as you can get for me. I imagine whatever happens evens should be available at worst on the Friday morning?? so i'm best off waiting to top up my 10/1 then but i'll be all in for this horse come the race. No doubt it'll be heart in the mouth the whole way round though such is his exuberance. For me if you were to make someone watch all 4 of TC's chase runs this season without knowing about the horse and him being a novice you would never had thought he'd be a novice of only 4 runs over fences. It could easily be a horse having the experience of 2-3 years chasing imo.

p.s I do fully see the reasoning behind Minella Rocco though - he's not had an ideal season with that fall last time out but he had a shocking season one leading up to last years festival bar his Ascot run so that wouldn't be a concern and the 4 miler form continues to get strong and stronger.
 
Have I missed some news regarding Coneygree.... all red, out to 10s?


I feel like I've totally missed the price on Native River now... 8/1 is just not appealing as an ante post prospect. Lazy comparison, but he reminds me of Syncronised. "just stays", and a bit slow and rubbish.

I backed Minella Rocco at 33s and would like to know he is back on track before I went in again (50/1 way too big compared with Native Rivers 8/1) .... after NR was jocked up, O'Connor jumped off and rode MR so there must be some confidence that he is a better horse in a staying race?

THis was a quote from earlier in Dec - Trainer Jonjo O'Neill's assistant Guy Upton said: "He is absolutely fine but we took him out of the Welsh National yesterday.

"I'm not sure what the plan is at the moment but JP and Frank wanted to take him out. He was only a speculative entry and they weren't mad on going there as they didn't want him to have a hard race on soft ground at this time of year."

Wouldn't put me off a go at 50s..s
 
jono - definitely get better than evens on the day unless he goes a stupid price after winning the Cotswold chase?! I wouldn't back him now at 5/4 as we're already on at bigger prices.

The big field isn't a problem, he won a world hurdle in a big field and he's proven he can jump around brilliant horses in the KG.

No holes to pick. I see Royal Vacations time was only 0.3 slower (and therefore Might Bite would have gone round faster) but he wasn't even extended so i agree with your first line... if he gets round he wins
 
Latest on Coneygree Kev:

He's good and we're hoping he'll be ready to run in the Gold Cup, but he won't run before then," Bradstock told Press Association Sport.

"He's fine, but it came out in the wash that he's jarred himself a little bit. It's not a serious injury, but as we all know, while he is a miracle horse, he is fragile.

"You never really know with him, but I'm hopeful he'll make the Gold Cup

He's already won a Gold Cup and if he's not right and we have to go to Aintree or Punchestown instead then that's what's right for him," she said. "Having said that, I'm sure he'll get to Cheltenham

Connections have also come out today and said Djakadam likely to go straight to the Gold Cup now so that's both Coneygree and Djakadam who won't run and effect his price. Out of the big players in the race it would really only be Don Cossack that could have a real effect on prices - either by getting a prep run in and confirming his well being and talent remains or not making the race at all.

I guess if both Coneygree and Don Cossack don't make the race and TC puts in a big performance in the Cotswold he could go odds on throughout but yeah hopefully odds against come the day