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2017 Arkle Trophy Chase

jono said:
He also seemed to go along with him racing over the 2 miles as well. That'll certainly make the confidence in Altior a little less!!
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It'll be a huge negative for Min if they did send Yorkhill for this race... Min is a two miler, and if cwright is right about Min being better than Yorkhill, then I have no fear regarding Altior... Altior is going to be winning the CC 2018 :very_drunk: after winning the Arkle on the snaff.
 
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The more you think about it maybe yorkhill staying over hurdles makes sense.. Wylie doesn't have a champion hurdle horse this year as I think NC will be WH bound.. If they think he won't beat MIN over 2m over fences they might choose to stay hurdling, which may also indicate they have a decent 2m 4f novice chaser in the yard ?
 
Potentially Bellshill? Patrick Mullins eluded to him going the JLT route and Up For Review for the RSA (by process that he isn't going for the 4 miler)....

Yorkhill more likely to win a JLT than a Champion Hurdle though? I suppose if Faugheen and/or Annie don't make it, he'd still likely want two decent darts at the CH.

Bringing it back to the Arkle....Identity Thief was good today, clipped in to 12s after winning at 1/7 haha.
 
Be interesting with IT.. As all those at the top of the market are coming from a Novice hurdle campaign where as he has proven he can cut it in open company albeit over hurdles.. Suppose a mid division finish in a CH and a fighting fifth win is the best form on offer at this stage?
 
So did Min lose the Supreme to a better horse or because of a niggle, conflicting stories from different posts read?
 
paz247 said:
So did Min lose the Supreme to a better horse or because of a niggle, conflicting stories from different posts read?
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I've seen Willie say the "beaten by a better horse" ... I have heard the other rumour but only from people who say they've heard it (Emmet Kennedy on the FF podcast says it I think)
 
That really is a very good question.. I think it maybe a little bit of both but altior is 3/1 and min is 8/1.. The Mullins camp rarely get it wrong twice.
 
cwright23 said:
That really is a very good question.. I think it maybe a little bit of both but altior is 3/1 and min is 8/1.. The Mullins camp rarely get it wrong twice.
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So are you backing Min? Or if they believe Altior better horse, do you think Yorkhill will take him on as they believe he could be fantastic over fences, and after Ruby's comment after the Neptune?
 
I've very much nailed my colours to the mast on Altior in this race. I'm confident on him being able to beat Min again BUT I do see the appeal and at the current prices I can see why people are getting drawn to Min. He was hyped so much in the Supreme that I think anything but winning was seen as a major disappointment. A second place in a Supreme is never bad form and I think now people are starting to realise that the 8/1 may be a slight over reaction. If anyone fancies Min i'd get on him before Yorkhill (imo) goes down the middle distance route as that is the only reason his price is still holding out at 8's
 
Anyone think the Min being injured angle is a little bit of straw clutching from the other side of the sea? Mullins said very clearly they think they got beaten by a better horse on the day. The prices are right, and Min will be an each way price on the day anyway unless Altior flops on debut
 
Looking back over the posts and at the races at the Festival, I would not be surprised to see Min and Yorkhill (if stays chasing) line up in this, Mullins keeps owners horses apart but the same owner, different owners he doesn't in some of the big races, off the top of my head, Faugheen and Nicols Canyon took each other on, Douvan and Shaneshill I think took each other on, Annie and Nichols, all be it over hurdles, but never the less if Wylie demands it you never know, oh and there would have been some Gigginstown runners in those races above aswell from Mullins yard at the time but that's to be expected
 
Min got injured when he smashed the third hurdle in, fantastic run to finish second. Mullins is not going to come out and blame an injury but the fact he wasn't seen after Cheltenham confirms the injury sustained during the race. Listening to a few podcasts, it sounds as if the stable are confident and will just let the horse do the talking. Patrick Mullins has said he would not be surprised if Min reversed the form with Altior in the arkle.

Mullins kept playing down min prior to the supreme which i think was because of all the talk and hype about him in the first place, but a significant blog i read from Townsend said that Mullins would be devastated if Min was to lose and he absolutely loves the horse.

Saying all that, I've backed Both !
 
Paz... none of those clashes had a horse in that Ruby would have had a more obvious choice in another race though?

You'd be amazed if Ruby didn't rode the Neptune winner .... and to me, he has more chance of winning the Arkle on min and JLT on Yorkhill than any other combination of novice chasers ?

I agree he does pitch them in against each other, but I think whenever it is two horses that are close, if there is another target, they take it ... (Vautour / Djakadam ) for example ....
 
see your point Kevloaf , Shaneshill may have gone Neptune that year and Nichols World Hurdle as he is this year but was that Wylie saying I want them in these races or Mullins
 
Couldn't say for sure either way. I noted Wylie saying he trusts Willie to place them, and I can only really think of Gigginstown forcing Willie to move horses around (Don Poli - RSA/4 miler) ... so I would punt at Mullins having the final say?

I do see what you're saying about him having more than one in a race, but horses in different owndership have also been kept apart notably when they are of similar potentials. (Examples like Faugheen and Hurricane Fly, Vautour and UDS that first novice chase season)

I suppose going back to your original point, I can't say anything would surprise me because the targets aren't ever clear but I do think they'll keep these two apart... (Min/Yorkhill)
 
Actually agree with a lot said on this subject.. Once Yorkhill gets rerouted min won't be 8/1
 
There was a long spell last season where the Supreme looked the ideal race for Yorkhill, with Bellshill being the yards first string Neptune horse.

Pretty sure Ruby Walsh had a BIG say on diverting Yorkhill over to the Neptune so he could take the ride on both Yorkhill and Min. Likely he'll be doing the same thing this year (adament on separating Min and Yorkhill)
 
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Paddy clipped from 7s to 6s for Yorkhill.

Why is Yanworth in the betting at 12s-20s? Not heard a peep about this going chasing!?

A negative for me, regarding Min, would be Ruby's comments straight after the Neptune. If they know Min is a 2 miler (which has been backed up in comments since) then they'd have known that then, and for Ruby to be so specific about winning The Arkle (let alone just a chase) that just makes me think he doesn't think Min is a festival winner in waiting... I appreciate I may be putting parts of a puzzle together and getting it wrong, but you can't think he "forgot" about Min, and if Min was injured and could turn the tables, then why not mention the Distance Chase (JLT) for Yorkhill ....

The love for Altior seems to have died down over the last couple of pages but that can only be a price thing... he has the best hurdling form and I'd need to see a solid looking form line for me to think MIn will turn it around... I accept the excuses, but they are still excuses at this stage... (all said before a fence is jumped)
 
Plenty of love for Altior here kevloaf....
 
At 3/1 there is no love from me.. Only joking.. Can't knock the horse i think it was a very good supreme he won and I think the form will be franked every Saturday through the winter. Apart from my interest in MIN which is the main reason I oppose altior, it's still 4 months away and the horse hasn't jumped a fence in public yet.. You've got to have a fair lump on at 3/1 to make a few quid.. Nicky is great of course he is but he's a proper ditherer and I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the supreme with only 1/2 runs under his belt
 
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