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2015 Fred Winter Thread

Lydia

However, after his straightforward Wincanton success, Zarib has got to see a cheap flop on the button in the Fred Winter and looks very dangerous for a horse who will surely improve for a sounder surface. He’s been intelligently campaigned by young trainer Dan Skelton, so take the widely available 12/1
 
I've been watching all the money come in for Hostile Fite the last couple days and just had a phone call saying the connections have backed him.
 
I am going to try and go through all the handicaps today.

Trends


  • Paul Nicholls has targeted this is recent seasons winning with Sanctuaire in 2010 and saddling the runner up for the last two seasons
  • The Pipe runners should also be respected. David Pipe has 1 winner and 4 places from 11 runners
  • Gordon Elliott, Gary Moore and Alan King trained runners should also be respected
  • Willie Mullins 9 runners have all finished unplaced
  • Fillies have won 3 of the last 6 renewals
  • Fillies have won 4/10 of all renewals from an overall representation of about 10%
  • 9 /10 winners were rated between 124 and 133
  • 7/10 winners ran on the flat
  • The top rated flat horse has won the race on 3 occasions and been runner up once
  • Irish Bred horses have won 5 renewals and filled 6 places from 83 runners.
  • French Breds are 4-13-70 and British Bred: 1-7-60
  • 9/10 winners had a prep race less than 32 days beforehand
  • 5/10 winners won last time out
  • 8/10 were making their handicap debut
  • Horses getting into the race by carrying a penalty have won on 2 occasions (50% strike rate)



http://www.fatjockey.com/cheltenham...nter-Juvenile-Handicap-Hurdle-Trends-2015-117

The Filly Trend

The filly trend is easy Alan Kings Nyanza is the only one that might get in. King hasnt won this but has filled 5 places from 17 runners. He is also 2 wins and 4 places from 12 in the Triumph over the decade giving him a combined stats for four year olds of 2 wins, 9 places from 29 runners.

Went off to France to run in the flat last week but will be on the shortlist if running. 25/1 NRNB with Betfair Sportsbook

The Flat Rating Trend

There are a few for the shortlist based on their flat rating. The David Pipe trained Unanimite was rated 94 on the flat and looks best in when comparing hurdle and flat rating of the runners. 20/1 is available with the NRNB books.

Pipe has a good record so that is a couple of trends boxes ticked,

The Dermot Weld trained Zafayan may struggle to make the cut but looks well in if flat form transferred to hurdles 129 versus 89.

I have added flat ratings for all runners to the first post on the thread.

The Official Rating Trend

With the cut off projected at 130 the 124-133 trend is likely to actally mean 130-133. Which gives us this sample. We have added bold to those horses where trainers have a good record and Starchitect because of earlier positive comments from Jason Maguire and Mccain.

<style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>
121336BAIE DES ILES (FR)4134-11-02Ross O'Sullivan IREMrs Z Wentworth
14PJEANPASCAL (FR)4133-11-01Venetia WilliamsDr Moira Hamlin
1122
STARCHITECT (IRE)41338411-01Donald McCainPaul & Clare Rooney
392134
BOUVREUIL (FR)4133-11-01Paul NichollsPotensis Bloodstock Ltd & Chris Giles
512SOURIYAN (FR)4133-11-01Jamie SnowdenThe GD Partnership
131ZARIB (IRE)41338211-01Dan SkeltonNotalotterry
1214
NYANZA (GER)41327711-00Alan KingHunscote Stud
115MR GALLIVANTER (IRE)41317910-13John QuinnRoss Harmon
B3-421
QUALANDO (FR)4131-10-13Paul NichollsKathy Stuart
33336FVERAWAL (IRE)41316610-13Willie Mullins IRESupreme Horse Racing Club
221
HOSTILE FIRE (IRE)41317910-13Gordon Elliott IREMrs Pat Sloan
2134
BARON ALCO (FR)4131-10-13Gary MooreJohn Stone
21-64
IBIS DU RHEU (FR)4131-10-13Paul NichollsJohn Hales
63611BEATABOUT THE BUSH (IRE)41304510-12Henry OliverMs S Howell
6232MICK JAZZ (FR)4130-10-12Harry FryPotensis Bloodstock Limited

<tbody>
</tbody>

There are a few fancied horses in here including Gordon Elliotts Hostile Fire.

The same connections landed a touch with Flaxen Flare in this race. Nyanza turns up here again and ticks another box, Paul Nicholls ( should we include those of his former pupils ?) and Gary Moore runners are also worth a second look. Mullins has never had a horse placed in this.

Betting Stats

The odds of winners are all over the shop Favourites have won 2 of 10 renewals, and been placed in another 4 giving a level stakes loss of 2.25.
Gault noted that in -
2014 Katgary in 2nd only one in the first 11 home under 16/1. Shortest priced animal in the first 14 home
2013 was 14/1.
2012 Two horses priced 10s and under finished in the first 6 in 2012.
2 in 2011, 3 in 2010.
That brings the total to 12 in 109 runnings. That's 12 out of the first 60 home.

What to do with that info ?

I think you have to look for an outsider and hope for the best !

Ill have another look closer to the race but here is my initial and personal ( i.e not the FJ) shortlist
<iframe width =550 height =280 src="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kvyKVlAgdc6RwUMmuFo6D74F13167XvHISkBbFx02-Q/pubhtml?gid=1972390219&single=true&widget=true&headers=false"></iframe>

Thoughts corrections and further suggestions welcome:D
 
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Think McCain is on the cold list at Cheltenham so I may avoid his. Starting to think king could have his best festival in a few years so nyanza interests me. Although German breds have struggled since well chief I think
 
Think McCain is on the cold list at Cheltenham so I may avoid his. Starting to think king could have his best festival in a few years so nyanza interests me. Although German breds have struggled since well chief I think

Has Alan King had a Cheltenham stable tour anywhere ...couldnt find any news on Nyanza apart from the trip to France. He skipped it with L Unique and went to Aintree a few years ago.
 
I am pretty sure King said his horse will probably miss Cheltenham. Owned by a stud more interested in black type or summit.

elsewhere

Gwencily Berbas is set to line up in the Fred Winter instead of the Triumph Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival.

The Barry Connell-owned four-year-old was a winner at Auteuil in his homeland, prompting connections to give him Festival engagements, and he could not have been more impressive on his first start for trainer Alan Fleming in a Grade Two at Fairyhouse last weekend.

Connell and Fleming were waiting for the British handicapper's assessment of the performance before committing to a target and now he has been handed a mark of 139, he is set to go down the handicap route in the Fred Winter Juvenile Hurdle on the Wednesday of Cheltenham.

Fleming said: " He'll go for the Fred Winter. I'm nearly 100 per cent sure."

Connell added: "He's been given a nice mark for the Fred Winter so that's where we're going to go."
 
Bidourey thoughts people ?
 
Bidourey thoughts people ?

It's entered in the imperial cup & sandown still soft/heavy so it could go there first & then bonus hunting but not sure it will get soft ground at cheltenham & the Fred winter comes on the 2nd day so not much rest if that is the plan. Personally I'm swaying towards Mick Jazz in this, right on the cut off for getting in but Potensis have 3 in the handicap above it, so reckon they could get it in if they wanted to.
 
Will take a look at this race tomorrow and a few hcps.
 
Looks like there has been a move for Starchitect. Not mad about McCain at Cheltenham either. Not crazy about Weld at Cheltenham either but might have a look at Zafayan.
 
You can rule out Hostile Fire 8 of the last 10 winners won in previous 25 days.
 
I have narrowed it down to 5. Qualandro Unanimite I'll be your clown Souriiyan Zafayan. You all prob surprise by me picks. But 1 is Nicholls couple are low represensation. Few of them are low profiles and they all meet most of the stats. The only stat i couldnt find was a Age Khan horse any of you guys managed to find one by Age Khan cheers in advance.
 
You can rule out Hostile Fire 8 of the last 10 winners won in previous 25 days.

So what about the 2 out of 10 that didn't then ? That's a one in five chance, I believe HF is a bigger price than 5/1 ?

Stats point you in a certain direction, just don't take them as gospel.
 
Most of them are usually right Waywardlad some people still may think Hostile Fire may win. That was just the main stat i was looking at.
 
Nicholls - All Yours ?

Friend of Betfair, Paul Nicholls, has a fantastic record in this low-key handicap for juveniles with one win and four placed finishes since 2010. The selection looks his number one going into the race this year and I expect him to be a lot shorter on the day. A mark of 137 seriously underestimates this quirky yet power-packed juvenile based on his run behind the very talented Beltor in a Grade Two at Kempton.


-----------

If using Beltor Arabian Revolution is the pick ?
 
I'm sure I read somewhere Mayo that All yours is bypassing Cheltenham for Aintree so won't be running but I may be wrong.

The other of note in this race who I think has been overlooked and fits the Nicholls trend is Old Guard. Had a very up and down season when he opened with a good win beating a very good yard stick in Alan King's Karezak. Next time out he ran with the choke out all the way in a Grade 1 and subsequently never made it home in Heavy ground at Chepstow but put in a much better performance at Sandown when second to another of King's good novices in Pain au Chocolat when arguably the ground was softer than ideal and he still pulled too hard at the start.

Better ground and a guaranteed stronger pace in the Fred Winter looks sure to be up his street and I think a mark of 137 completely underestimates his potential
 
The one i went for is Unanimite the only stat dont meet didnt run in last 28 days
 
Ferguson said: "Arabian Revolution has some very strong form to his name. He won at Kempton first time out, then was second at Ludlow behind Beltor, who is going for the Triumph Hurdle, before winning the Chatteris Fen at Huntingdon.

"The horse has come on since then and we are hopeful that he will run a nice race."