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General Chat

Exar Essay said:
Yeah that was really interesting and shows that there is definitely value backing those who lose. They’re deliberately overpricing them.

However, my view is that AP prices are so short theses days because of cash out. Prices condensed around 6-7 years ago when cash out caught on. If we removed that, the corollary should be increased prices. But we’d never get that.

Frank’s example re French horses for the Triumph is a good one. I get that you could back 5 and cash out the underwhelming ones whereby you’re creating a free shot. And that’s why they price the majority at 12/1 - 16/1 before their UK/IRE debut. However, would he offer 25/1+ without cash out?
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The Cash Out option clearly works for Denise and I think they were the first to offer it…..First to market and all that and from the biggest online bookmaker by far (£3.5B), probably bigger than Flutters portfolio of bookmaker/accountants

As to Hickey saying he disagrees with Cash Out for AP bets, then this appears the Company line as I can have double the current price of a horse at Cheltenham and the ‘offer’ is 5% above stake……treble the price and it’s still 5% !😳…..which I think someone on here is the standard PP/SB offer?

Hickey is an example of how many bookmaker PR reps and their traders think, in that everything is about margin and not gross win

When betting tax was on point of sale then margin was the key as the margin needed to be bigger than the tax %

However after tax was changed to be on gross win most bookmakers didn’t change their trading approach/strategy, thereby continuing to look mainly towards the margin from the customer, not the gross win

So whereas Hickey and his ilk don’t think Cash Out should be offered on AP bets, they continue to fail to understand the average customer and what turnover/profit their Companies are losing as a result and why Denise is continuing to kick their arse !😂
 
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Can remember Denise done win any race for one Cheltenham and never went near it again :ROFLMAO:
 
Posted elsewhere:

I've said it before but I think it bears repeating. Before the internet, betting was a fairly static product but this century in particular it has evolved rapidly. In particular, the last 10 years have seen a huge increase in book building taking advantage of offers like nrnb and cash out, both of which were unheard of back in the day.

I think that, at first, bookies just saw it as increased turnover, ie a good thing, but as punters became more sophisticated the margins changed and, as you'd expect from private businesses they have looked to address that. Many on here are open that they see it as a war with the bookies so they can hardly be surprised when they shore up their defences. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find another way through those defences rather than crying foul.

Alternatively, you could always be more selective and bet to enhance your enjoyment of a brilliant sport.
 
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archie said:
Posted elsewhere:

I've said it before but I think it bears repeating. Before the internet, betting was a fairly static product but this century in particular it has evolved rapidly. In particular, the last 10 years have seen a huge increase in book building taking advantage of offers like nrnb and cash out, both of which were unheard of back in the day.

I think that, at first, bookies just saw it as increased turnover, ie a good thing, but as punters became more sophisticated the margins changed and, as you'd expect from private businesses they have looked to address that. Many on here are open that they see it as a war with the bookies so they can hardly be surprised when they shore up their defences. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find another way through those defences rather than crying foul.

Alternatively, you could always be more selective and bet to enhance your enjoyment of a brilliant sport.
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Spot on. People complain about account shutdowns when exploiting every advantage to them in the book, and wondering why the accounts last five seconds.

I'm not a huge punter (£10 per point on racing, £5 on most other sports) but the Aussie method is the best. Minimum lay bet, little in the way of wider advantages such as extra places, BOG etc. Trust your judgement and play the game against them that way.
 
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Ellisgittings said:
Spot on. People complain about account shutdowns when exploiting every advantage to them in the book, and wondering why the accounts last five seconds.
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I agree with everything @archie says on this subject but there are also plenty of people who have accounts restricted and closed without utilising the gimmicks some bookmakers offer, it's industry greed that has changed, many olders punters have not...
 
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Anyone considering having a bet on DRF might be worth considering very heavy rain for last few days and long range forecast is for plenty more in the next 10 days

Might suit some but the likes of Marine Nationale would not be suited to it
 
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Liammet said:
Anyone considering having a bet on DRF might be worth considering very heavy rain for last few days and long range forecast is for plenty more in the next 10 days

Might suit some but the likes of Marine Nationale would not be suited to it
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Perhaps skip DFR for MN. A chance for majborough to show his mettle?
 
Does anyone have a link the tells the exact conditions for each individual handicap at the festival? Would be handy to have

Question at the minute is, for the NHC has a horse to have finished in first 2 or first 4 at 2m7.5F or above in a chase?
 
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OffTheBridle said:
Does anyone have a link the tells the exact conditions for each individual handicap at the festival? Would be handy to have

Question at the minute is, for the NHC has a horse to have finished in first 2 or first 4 at 2m7.5F or above in a chase?
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….i think they’re in post#1 of the individual threads from last year. I’ll sort them out when the entries are due;

for novice five yrs old and upwards

THREE MILES ABOUT SIX FURLONGS (3m 5f 201yds)

Highest weight .......12st

Penalties, after February 23rd, 2025, a winner of a steeple chase 5lb
(No penalty to increase Horse’s weight above 12st)

(Rated 0-145)
Which prior to 24th February 2025 have started a minimum of THREE Steeple Chases
in Britain, Ireland or France, one of which must be in the current season,
and which have places 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a Steeple Case with an official distance description of
'two miles seven and a half furlongs' or more

Maximum 18 runners (with 2 Reserves)
 
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Mental finish to the big race at gowran

Shame half the screen was taken up by some donkeys running around wetherby in a class 5 handicap

No replays of the finish

Think now is the hour got up
 
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Enjoyed watching Road to Cheltenham yesterday.
Thought Darragh O’Keefe made a refreshing change, spoke well and very interesting views and opinions on horses.
Hopefully they get more like him on the programme.
 
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