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Cheltenham Bumper 2018

Denman wasn't trying to win a rough big field race over 2m........
 
Are we seriously talking about how big a horse physically is having an impact of whether it wins at Cheltenham?

We can't be....?


The size of a horse VS ability to run fast are NOT a direct correlation

If it was even remotely useable as a guide, they'd pop it on the racecard?

They're measured in "hands" for goodness sake.
 
Kevloaf said:
Are we seriously talking about how big a horse physically is having an impact of whether it wins at Cheltenham?

We can't be....?


The size of a horse VS ability to run fast are NOT a direct correlation

If it was even remotely useable as a guide, they'd pop it on the racecard?

They're measured in "hands" for goodness sake.
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Who's the biggest horse?
Supasundae? He's a fine specimen.

Pallasator and American Tom are sizable.


Aparrently size matters :highly_amused:
 
Scooby91 said:
Who's the biggest horse?
Supasundae? He's a fine specimen.

Pallasator and American Tom are sizable.


Aparrently size matters :highly_amused:
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Mengli Khan is 17 hands isn't he?

but wasn't Hurricane Fly only 15 hands?

:p must have been VERY poor years when Hurricane Fly was knocking about
 
Kevloaf said:
Mengli Khan is 17 hands isn't he?

but wasn't Hurricane Fly only 15 hands?

:p must have been VERY poor years when Hurricane Fly was knocking about
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Good point on MK.

American Tom is the one, sceau royal and top notch would give him a sound beating.

Don Cossack was a fine beast too tbf. Took him plenty of time to fill out his frame, as supasundae is doing now I believe.
 
Ah - I was just saying (badly) that Denman probably wasn't the best example to use when talking about the bumper.

But when you think about it - we try to take so many things into account when coming up with selections that considering whether the size of the hose might make it more or less effective on a sharp, undulating track isn't that unreasonable - though I wouldn't make it the no.1 factor.

Ability to act on track though, that does bother me. I'm put off On The Blind Side regardless of how great Sandown was purely because to me he didn't come down the hill at all at Chelt and not sure you'll get away with that in a Grade 1.
 
Yes I see your point squigsy.

Rather than call it size, it is more ability to handle the track, which might be related to how big a horse is, but the actual size isn't the variable.

Do they have the size of a horse in Hong Kong (I know they have the weight)...
 
squiggsy68 said:
Ah - I was just saying (badly) that Denman probably wasn't the best example to use when talking about the bumper.

But when you think about it - we try to take so many things into account when coming up with selections that considering whether the size of the hose might make it more or less effective on a sharp, undulating track isn't that unreasonable - though I wouldn't make it the no.1 factor.

Ability to act on track though, that does bother me. I'm put off On The Blind Side regardless of how great Sandown was purely because to me he didn't come down the hill at all at Chelt and not sure you'll get away with that in a Grade 1.
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Depends if your inclined to believe NJH on the sore shins of OTBS. at the time of running at chelt.
 
Scooby91 said:
Depends if your inclined to believe NJH on the sore shins of OTBS. at the time of running at chelt.
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I'd missed him saying that - I guess sore shins isn't going to help at all, but he did look unbalanced to me (like the front and back legs weren't quite in sync) which seemed to resolve once he hit rising ground.
 
squiggsy68 said:
Ah - I was just saying (badly) that Denman probably wasn't the best example to use when talking about the bumper.

But when you think about it - we try to take so many things into account when coming up with selections that considering whether the size of the hose might make it more or less effective on a sharp, undulating track isn't that unreasonable - though I wouldn't make it the no.1 factor.

Ability to act on track though, that does bother me. I'm put off On The Blind Side regardless of how great Sandown was purely because to me he didn't come down the hill at all at Chelt and not sure you'll get away with that in a Grade 1.
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if you're outpaced going down the hill, which a few are, it don;t matter if you're good enough to catch them up the hill and go past them. Which on the blind side did quite easily.
Ask Brave Inca, Inglis Drever and Big Bucks (to a lesser extent). That;s just famous hurdlers.
Chasers = see Synchronised, Bob's Worth, Lord Windermere etc
some of the most successful cheltenham horses got outpaced down the hill
 
Absolutely agree, I'm not saying it's impossible and you take it into account.

Just that in this instance, on what I've seen to date, OTBS isn't for me in a Grade 1 at Cheltenham - beating Poetic Rhythm under 3 lengths when getting 5lbs doesn't suggest there's a huge amount in hand to play with in what will undoubtedly be a better class race.

Just my opinion of course (and going off topic in the bumper thread really - sorry) - I could easily be wrong come the day.
 
Gifford appearing to wave something of a white flag before they start. I always felt he had the horse with most speed but always a possibility he could get outstayed up the hill. Soft ground will increase the likelihood of that happening.

Hard to be confident about him now so have added Seddon at big odds. He got a very favourable mention from Adrian Heskin at the Unibet preview. Hopefully, one of the few things worth listening to. It is obviously a million miles from an impressive win in a Musselburgh bumper but clearly they think a bit of him and Cue Card went via what was probably a pretty ordinary Fontwell bumper.
 
kinloch brae said:
Gifford appearing to wave something of a white flag before they start. I always felt he had the horse with most speed but always a possibility he could get outstayed up the hill. Soft ground will increase the likelihood of that happening.

Hard to be confident about him now so have added Seddon at big odds. He got a very favourable mention from Adrian Heskin at the Unibet preview. Hopefully, one of the few things worth listening to. It is obviously a million miles from an impressive win in a Musselburgh bumper but clearly they think a bit of him and Cue Card went via what was probably a pretty ordinary Fontwell bumper.
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I think this is typical Gifford; he said something similar about Theo's Charm not running if it wasn't soft ground in 2015 and then he goes out to finish 7th on good ground at 100/1 and ran his best ever Bumper race. What is more likely is that he really thinks Didtheyleaveuoutto can win this and is a little disappointed that there is a chance of soft ground or worse. It's pre-Cheltenham nerves and if it's anywhere near good to soft or better on Wednesday, he will be my biggest bet of the week.
 
Bayoffreedom said:
I think this is typical Gifford; he said something similar about Theo's Charm not running if it wasn't soft ground in 2015 and then he goes out to finish 7th on good ground at 100/1 and ran his best ever Bumper race. What is more likely is that he really thinks Didtheyleaveuoutto can win this and is a little disappointed that there is a chance of soft ground or worse. It's pre-Cheltenham nerves and if it's anywhere near good to soft or better on Wednesday, he will be my biggest bet of the week.
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Biggest bet on the week in the BUMPER.

Peas and carrots :p
 
Bayoffreedom said:
I know!! Can't believe I'm planning it but he's the horse (apart from Samcro) who has impressed me the most all season and, regardless of the race, that is my motivation.
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He’s my nap of the meeting too, as long as the ground is good to soft (though think he might prove good enough regardless). Don’t like the fact he’s trained by Gifford though, and one I’m happy to have covered is gallahers cross. He was the only one going the pace of didtheyleaveuoutto the last day into the final furlong, and might be a chance that Henderson has left more improvement in the tank with that one than Gifford
 
Robbante said:
He’s my nap of the meeting too, as long as the ground is good to soft (though think he might prove good enough regardless). Don’t like the fact he’s trained by Gifford though, and one I’m happy to have covered is gallahers cross. He was the only one going the pace of didtheyleaveuoutto the last day into the final furlong, and might be a chance that Henderson has left more improvement in the tank with that one than Gifford
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We're of the same thinking with Gallaghers cross.
However at this stage hendo has changed his mind on running him in the chelt bumper
 
Scooby91 said:
We're of the same thinking with Gallaghers cross.
However at this stage hendo has changed his mind on running him in the chelt bumper
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Completely missed that, bit of a glancing blow to start the day. Assumed he was an intended runner after last decs
 
I was given a horse yesterday for this and it’s one that has slipped totallly under the radar.
Volcano, beat Acey Milan on debut, then took that one on again on New Years Day on deep ground and got chinned, interestingly, connections immediately removed the horse from Christian Williams’ yard and sent him to NTD presumably upset with something, and Nige has had this one locked away since.
At 40/1 I’ll take a chance he’s better than his last run....
 
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