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General Chat

Some good points here, from both Carnage at Taunton and Quevega. Yes, Cheltenham is a unique test but we shouldn't stand still. The DRF is a good invention. I can agree, it has bloodied the noses somewhat of UK trainers who have their own systems and approaches vis a vis certain races and their regimes around certain races, towards Cheltenham/Aintree.

I still think, with a strong emphasis to the Irish trainers using the meeting as a trial in itself for Cheltenham, as we know disregard, and with some disdain, Christmas form, don't be too surprised if we see some further surprises in 5 weeks, franking the Christmas form, but knocking what we've seen at the DRF this weekend.
 
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When Willie isn't so dominant, and the UK horses and trainers are the elite again - then they will go over and pick up DRF wins .....

At the moment, the Irish are ahead - it won't be that way forever.
 
At the moment, the Irish are ahead - it won't be that way forever.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn’t bank on that last part at all. A big part of why Britain used to be ahead was because Ireland wasn’t a particularly wealthy country through the 80s/90s etc, which lead to most of the top horses they bred being sold abroad. It’s a different story now and most of the good ones are being kept. I feel this particular point is overlooked a lot and people just think Mullins/Elliott etc are vastly superior trainers to the English and that’s the only reason.
 
riccirich said:
At the moment, the Irish are ahead - it won't be that way forever.
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Wouldn’t bank on that last part at all. A big part of why Britain used to be ahead was because Ireland wasn’t a particularly wealthy country through the 80s/90s etc, which lead to most of the top horses they bred being sold abroad. It’s a different story now and most of the good ones are being kept. I feel this particular point is overlooked a lot and people just think Mullins/Elliott etc are vastly superior trainers to the English and that’s the only reason.[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying but I've got forever to be right, so I would bank on it :boxing:

A lot of 'best horses' were French for a while weren't they too if we think about it.

Ultimately the owners will go to the best trainers..... when that's not Willie, it may well be Patrick to be fair, and Gordon isn't going anywhere..... but my point is, the UK trainers aren't going over there now as they'd not be at an advantage.... I have absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that if Paul Nicholls had Big Bucks, Masterminded, Kauto and Denman, all of them would have been running this weekend! Literally zero doubt.
 
What's also being overlooked is also that more UK and foreign based owners are seeing Mullins/Elliott/De Bromhead and now increasingly so, Cromwell and McConnell, as the NH trainers to go to. Adding in JP sprinkling in his largess across many trainers, although many too are in numerous UK based yards, it augurs well for the Irish.

Yes, it is cyclical, but there's a fair mileage left in the Irish dominance.
 
Yeah, you'd say another decade at this rate.

The dominance of Ballymore / Coolmore won't be doing it any harm either
 
Race conditions added to first post of each race thread set up by others (except Cross Country and Hunter Chase)...
 
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Just catching up with the day after an inopportune late lunch was booked on my behalf … :uncomfortableness:

In respect of the racing, in the words of John Locke, Ill need to see that again.

The interviews were bloody telling though. Willie clearly unhappy with Paul’s ride on FV. Paul gets off Gaelic Warrior and has a face like thunder and you can hear the upset in his voice. In my view, there’s clearly some upset in the camp.

I do have some sympathy for Paul though. I found it very odd that Willie publicly criticised Paul in the middle of the card yesterday. Can’t do much for his confidence. Also, to slate a rider for trying to win a Grade One was very odd.

Paul is on the money re Facile Vega too. The early speed might’ve ruined his chance of the win, but doesn’t explain him getting beat that far. Also, if he’s the second coming, as Willie has told us he is, he should be able to race at that speed.

All a bit odd to me.
 
I wonder if Mullins might fancy a crack at the English trainers championship again.

He pretty much has the top 2 in Ireland for most disciplines and trips so could split them up a bit more across the sea and pick up the big prizes.
 
Hurricane fly said:
I wonder if Mullins might fancy a crack at the English trainers championship again.

He pretty much has the top 2 in Ireland for most disciplines and trips so could split them up a bit more across the sea and pick up the big prizes.
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It'll only be something he'd consider after Cheltenham .....

That year was fantastic, when Nicholls showed him who the real Daddy is.
 
I more meant to decide in the summer and go for it next year.

Start to really go for it, he could bring Vauban or one of this years novices over for races like the International. Especially if CH goes over fences he can mop up the hurdles division for starters.

Smash in another 10 winners at Cheltenham and then see where the land lies for Aintree and Sandown.
 
Hurricane fly said:
I more meant to decide in the summer and go for it next year.

Start to really go for it, he could bring Vauban or one of this years novices over for races like the International. Especially if CH goes over fences he can mop up the hurdles division for starters.

Smash in another 10 winners at Cheltenham and then see where the land lies for Aintree and Sandown.
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Whilst I think he could.... I just don't think he would....

The prize money all year wouldn't be worth the hassle, when if he nailed Cheltenham he gets pretty close anyway

....and with the Grand National being so influencial to it?



Would love to see it though, totally agree he could.



Might depend how quickly Elliott looks to be bouncing back. The DRF just highlighted how easy it is for him in Ireland at the moment. GE will be back though
 
Yeah Ireland being an easy win is the key which is why I'd like to see it next year as even if he's improved i don't think Gordon will be close enough for concern.

The year he got close he only had 27 winners in GB and if Vautour hadn't fallen in the Melling Chase would have won it! Targeted raids then pillage the spring festivals.

To paraphrase Kevin Keegan; I would love it. And hopefully when Willie reads the forum tonight this has stoked a fire
 
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Hurricane fly said:
Yeah Ireland being an easy win is the key which is why I'd like to see it next year as even if he's improved i don't think Gordon will be close enough for concern.

The year he got close he only had 27 winners in GB and if Vautour hadn't fallen in the Melling Chase would have won it! Targeted raids then pillage the spring festivals.

To paraphrase Kevin Keegan; I would love it. And hopefully when Willie reads the forum tonight this has stoked a fire
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Nicholls chatting shit could stoke the fire.


I do love Nicholls to be fair..... if it came down to the wire, I'd want Nicholls to 'do him' ....



I think the Irish care about beating the English, as an Englishman I just don't care if they do... it's a one-way rivalry IMO
 
Hurricane fly said:
Yeah Ireland being an easy win is the key which is why I'd like to see it next year as even if he's improved i don't think Gordon will be close enough for concern.

The year he got close he only had 27 winners in GB and if Vautour hadn't fallen in the Melling Chase would have won it! Targeted raids then pillage the spring festivals.

To paraphrase Kevin Keegan; I would love it. And hopefully when Willie reads the forum tonight this has stoked a fire
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If he just targeted handicap chases at cheltenham and aintree that could be the only change needed to win it.

every year he’s passing up wins in those races when he has the ammo imo. Could have won the grand annual last year with gentleman de mee on route to aintree. This year he could target the likes of flame bearer, adamantly chosen, I am Maximus etc at those type of races, but they are usually also rans in the grade 1s or kept for races in Ireland.

if he really wanted to go after it then a small change of tactics like this could make all the difference.
 
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Kevloaf said:
Nicholls chatting shit could stoke the fire.


I do love Nicholls to be fair..... if it came down to the wire, I'd want Nicholls to 'do him' ....



I think the Irish care about beating the English, as an Englishman I just don't care if they do... it's a one-way rivalry IMO
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I'm English but Nicholls and Henderson wind me up when they get all bullish about a horse who we know will get slapped down when they face the Tier 1 Irish. (to honest, it's actually the fact that every year on the bus trip to Cheltenham someone would bleat on about TNO beating Faugheen/Annie Power etc. and it did my head in to the point it still annoys me now)

You never know though, it might need something like that for the powers that be to realise the current calendar just isn't fit for purpose.
 
I think the record for DRF winners rolling over to Cheltenham Festival winners is a bit sketchy, and I suspect some of them results from this weekend will be turned on their head.

I, of course, will sit on the fence and say I don't know for sure which ones will hold up and which ones won't, however, the one I think I'd be most sure about is Facile Vega.

That ride today was far more suicidal than the Dysart Dynamo ride in the Arkle, IMO. FV has already beat Il Etait Temps and he'll do it again in the Supreme, for me, if he's ridden 'properly'.
 
Kevloaf said:
I think the Irish care about beating the English, as an Englishman I just don't care if they do... it's a one-way rivalry IMO
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In other sports, yes. Nothing funnier than seeing England fail when they think they're onto a winner. Is it coming home? Is it fuck.

I suppose it'd be different in racing if the horses were a bit more patriotic but they seem a bit nonplussed about the whole thing unless there's a carrot or sugar lump involved.

I did google 'Prestbury Cup' to see if there was an image of a trophy and can't find one. I bet it's still nicer than that silly little ashes urn :welcoming:
 
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Hurricane fly said:
I'm English but Nicholls and Henderson wind me up when they get all bullish about a horse who we know will get slapped down when they face the Tier 1 Irish. (to honest, it's actually the fact that every year on the bus trip to Cheltenham someone would bleat on about TNO beating Faugheen/Annie Power etc. and it did my head in to the point it still annoys me now)

You never know though, it might need something like that for the powers that be to realise the current calendar just isn't fit for purpose.
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Yeah, I'd be anti-English as a general rule.



I actually hate that people likme Lewis Hamilton 'because he's British' .... as if that fucking matters

Just because someone was born on the same clump of land I was, doesn't mean I need to follow them tribally surely?!


Imagine that, not liking Roger Federer because he isn't British, so you have to support Murray instead (great guy BTW)


It's a fucking nonsense though.




I remember watching F1 with my Dad as a kid, loved Damon Hill, and when Schumacher(spelling) knocked him off my Dad went mental.... in hindsight, that's just bananas.




Nothing to be proud about being English, unfortunately.


Xenophobia is my favourite thing to call people out on though. Come at me bitches.:satellite:
 
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That Horse said:
In other sports, yes. Nothing funnier than seeing England fail when they think they're onto a winner. Is it coming home? Is it fuck.

I suppose it'd be different in racing if the horses were a bit more patriotic but they seem a bit nonplussed about the whole thing unless there's a carrot or sugar lump involved.

I did google 'Prestbury Cup' to see if there was an image of a trophy and can't find one. I bet it's still nicer than that silly little ashes urn :welcoming:
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Watched a documentary on Amazon recently, G.Swann was talking about lifting the ashes urn.... said it was an amazing moment and when he lifted it, it had the sticker from the 'club shop' or something with 8.99 on the bottom or something..... hilarous
 
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