Dear Diary

[Quevega]

As I see it, the diaries have two purposes; to account for that persons bets, and to help inform other forum users. The better diaries are the ones that achieve both.

Maybe we don't need a rulebook? Maybe we just need an encouragement to try and achieve those two principles where possible to improve the quality of the forum?

Even the obvious selections might have a short justification. Why now? Why that many points? Might be as short an answer as "didn't have him covered and can see him shortening in the early season" but just adds a bit of flavour.

I don't have an issue with after timing particularly so long as the tone of the post isn't gloating. It's just it's less useful to me as I can't do anything with that information after the event.

Maybe those who are listing their successful roll ups after the event might be encouraged to keep a rolling tally of failed roll ups (just points total, not necessarily the failed selections even) to better account?

Well put.

Not too dissimilar to my post (below) that started all this shit.
Just a different style really :highly_amused:
It was meant as a gentle reminder to no one in particular to try and improve this part of the forum.
You'll notice no names are mentioned and I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do, if you read it properly.
Next time I'll say nothing and go and look at cocks instead.

Just had a look at some of the recent diary posts in the members section. And I’ve referred to this before.

it might be beneficial to remind some that one of the reasons the diaries were introduced was to reduce the amount of after timing in the main threads.

But IMO the diaries on the whole (not all) are a fucking disgrace and nothing like the original intentions for them.

which was a designated place for individuals to note their bets when made and reasons why, along with strategy etc.
then people could potentially use the information if they chose to do so or not.
even posting bets with no explanation in real time is useful if you look for the reasons yourself.

sadly most of the diaries are of no use whatsoever and we might as well replace them with a photo gallery of each other’s dicks. Even then we’ll get several pictures of Danny D,s dick no doubt.

harsh but fair ??

 

[Kevloaf]

I appreciate some missed the original conversation and are catching up but it'll be good when we can move on from this topic as it has been done to death now.

​​​​​​I don't think anyone is advocating for after timers to be banned or anything, so it will continue in some form or another no matter what is said here. Members will have to accept that but of course they're also free to call it out if they wish.

In terms of the diaries, I joined after the diaries were already up and running so it didn't occur to me when I started mine this year that it would benefit others to hear the rhyme or reason behind any selection I make. On reflection, that's clearly of more use than seeing what my points stake is or just the name of a selection.

"Done to death", but you still want to chip in :barbershop_quartet_member:

:love_heart: - I do apologise, for some it will be odd that I'm bringing it up, but I feel like I needed to address it, and get it in one place, so that it doesn't filter into other areas going forward and I can gauge where 'we' are all at.

Ultimately I'll just do whatever I want as I only pretend to care about you all :cheerful: .... I'm glad 'no rules' is the general feeling so far though, I cba typing any out :triumphant:

 

[That Horse]

Next time I'll say nothing and go and look at cocks instead.

Hall of mirrors in your house?

 

[HesTheOne]

The level of debate this topic has drawn is a great reflection of the forum itself and the interest it holds

We all are on the same crusade against the house, and if your sword is a little bigger than the next guys due to some offline work, then all the better :satellite:

 

[Quevega]

Hall of mirrors in your house?

:highly_amused: Funnily enough, yes.

 

[That Horse]

"Done to death", but you still want to chip in :barbershop_quartet_member:

I don't think I said much if anything at all when this shit went down, so above comment was my first chip.

Was just hoping not to see same points get recycled over and over again but you take your time there :encouragement:

 

[astontom]

Personally I don't particularly agree with roll ups at all. If you have 1pt on an even money rollup, it's just a 2pt bet rather than doubling the odds. Trying to claim you had a horse at double the odds is just misleading in my opinion, should at least noted what the rollup odds were.

If you have 2pts on a horse, I couldn't really care less if that's one point on an even money rollup or 2pts of actual money. But trying to claim you have double the odds as an aftertime is a bit off.

I appreciate I'm a newby, very much in the learning phase and don't have a diary but the above might take away a lot of the issues. What seems to get people's backs up (including mine to an extent) is aftertiming rollups and recording big odds on a selection. I think it feels a lot less emotive to have 20pts on a selection that claiming to have 1 point at 20 times the current price. Maybe a policy of recording rollups as an increased stake at the odds when placed (rollup) could help.

Ultimately the sharing of information on this site is excellent and hopefully helps us all achieve the aim of taking some cash from the bookies. It is a real shame if this issue means some members feel they cannot continue to share their wisdom with us, which is valuable to us all (particularly novices like me).

 

[Lbur4288]

Personally I enjoy the level of detail you get with the race planning stuff and it helps me massively when making decisions in terms of the antepost stuff.

I did attempt to try and fluff my diary up with reasoning for backing horses but ended up getting peed off with my phone deleting a paragraph every time I updated a new entry.

Quite happy that people use their diaries as they see fit, I certainly use mine more as a record rather than anything else. I find it handy if I'm away from home where I keep a written record.

If there was one thing that could be improved it could be more debate on there. I know I have checked out most diaries and in some cases checked out some angles/horses I may have missed and rethought my own strategy.

 

[Kevloaf]

I don't think I said much if anything at all when this shit went down, so above comment was my first chip.

Was just hoping not to see same points get recycled over and over again but you take your time there :encouragement:

Haha, I meant by commenting in here :victorious:

It was funnier in my head. :teapot:

 

[Deleted member 4957]

I’m assuming I’ve missed a chunk of debate as I can’t recall any obvious ill feeling on diary issues.
Mine is purely a place to record my bets, I’ll rarely add a new comment unless there’s a point I feel is valid enough to make, otherwise just assume all my other bets are stolen ideas from you lot.
Is it aftertiming that’s the big issue, and is this related specifically to roll ups ?
Personally I’m not fussed by this, but I do like a pretty well presented diary in race order, mainly because I’m not capable of pretty or well presented, but I do like to look at who people have backed particularly after
seeing someone making a contribution on a race thread, which I guess is linked to Kevs point about scrutiny and credibility.
This is a great place with so many great contributors, I wouldn’t be getting too precious about anyone’s books and what prices they get, ultimately I want everyone to win and would not feel the slightest bit bitter if my 14/1 winner was rolled up by others with premier league bookings, Slovakian weightlighting and lesbian boxing to make it a 200/1 shot, best of luck to you….

 

[Saxon Warrior]

Got to thank Kev for badgering me into adding my diary as I'd be lost without it now and can't believe how I ever kept grips previously as I mainly use shops so I have 100's of slips come Fez week. Getting older now so the memory isn't as good as it once was !
personally don't give a dot re aftertiming and all for individuals having monster odds on the fancied ones as I love to see the bookies squirming.

Make sure you photograph every betting slip on your phone Lobos and keep them in a photo file on your phone/in your cloud.

That way if you lose one you will have some backup proof.

 

[Fouroverthrutwo]

Make sure you photograph every betting slip on your phone Lobos and keep them in a photo file on your phone/in your cloud.

That way if you lose one you will have some backup proof.

I didn't know a Nokia 5146 could connect to the internet :hopelessness:

 

[Saxon Warrior]

In case anyone thought I was. ​

......just dropped by to say, I have no intention of changing the way I am currently using my own FJ Diary.

.....and that includes rollups/or let's call them what they really are (to me) active/alive doubles, or trebles.

My diary page one shows I cashed most of those active doubles before the last Festival anyway, as some of the the Cheltenham horses I'd used, dropped away in my estimation.

Probably less than half actually survived until March.

For the future....
I'm looking forward to putting up some additional antepost single bets when the season commences fully and markets start to move around and more perceived value emerges.

At the moment I dont see too much to excite me to strike any further bets.
- that will change soon enough.

In the meantime I'm focusing on the Irish Race Planning Diaries (I hope to update December's next week).

Also well worth a look through both Gordon Elliotts and Willie Mullins' 10-year Cheltenham Diaries, including a "before-time" post in the NHC to consider the case of Frontal Assault being a reasonable bet at 28/1 to become a key Gordon Elliott horse for the race.

https://www.fatjockey.com/forum/fat-...750#post312750

While on the subject, Gordon has stated that Frontal Assault may go to the Troytown Chase next.

That's the route RWF took to the NHC last season.

I would say given he wont be put up much for the win this week that he could be pretty decent value to win the Troytown, and that may be an angle to consider away from Cheltenham.

Also remember that Gordon's 5 NHC winners didn't run again after Christmas, all their runs were done early.

 

[Lobos]

I didn't know a Nokia 5146 could connect to the internet :hopelessness:

Have you been stalking me ??:welcoming:

 

[Lobos]

Make sure you photograph every betting slip on your phone Lobos and keep them in a photo file on your phone/in your cloud.

That way if you lose one you will have some backup proof.

When I was working I used to photo copy them. Good idea though. Cheers Sax.

P.S. Thanks for pinpointing Frontal Assault. A long way to go but so far so good and he does very much look the ideal type.

 

[Saxon Warrior]

When I was working I used to photo copy them. Good idea though. Cheers Sax.

P.S. Thanks for pinpointing Frontal Assault. A long way to go but so far so good and he does very much look the ideal type.

I'm surprised the Mullins and Elliotts Diaries don't have more views.

There as pure diaries as you could wish for.
Gifts that keep giving, for years to come hopefully.

There's so much in them, that give race routes for the two biggest Cheltenham Festival trainers out there.

As well as putting us off certain races where they have a poor to non-existent past Cheltenham record.

I probably must be in there more than most.

Now is a great time to feast on them, to be ready and diarising on your phone calendars for the key races for Novice hurdlers and Chasers debuts.

Maybe Three Stripe Life starts in the 2M3.5F Beginners Chase at Down Royal on his way to the Drinmore Grade 1 in early December.
- that wouldn't surprise me at all.

The Hilly Way Grade 2 Chase at Cork for Gentleman De Mee maybe as an early step into open 2M company.
The route that Willie uses often.
Maybe it will be Ferny Hollow instead?

Did Jazzy Matty blot his copybook on his French debut, or was he a little rusty and too conservative with his jumping over those hurdle/1/2 fences.

Could he still be Gordon's Triumph Hurdle type and go to Down Royal in 4 weeks time?
If he is entered and declared there should we back him for the Triumph pre-Down Royal?

 

[Saxon Warrior]

When I was working I used to photo copy them. Good idea though. Cheers Sax.

P.S. Thanks for pinpointing Frontal Assault. A long way to go but so far so good and he does very much look the ideal type.

I'm tracking him for his rating rise next week, and then diarising for the Troytown early entries.

 

[Lobos]

Totally agree with the Mullins/Elliott diaries. They are both creatures of habit........with the number of horses they have, they simply have to be ! It's a priceless tool and one that will produce several winners and placed horses in the races we want them to run in. Thanks again for your work on it.

 

[Lobos]

I'm tracking him for his rating rise next week, and then diarising for the Troytown early entries.

Yep. That Troytown heads up from Gordon was very encouraging. I've certainly not given up on Ash Tree Meadow neither and thought he ran as well as expected against a very progressive type who himself might yet turn out to be festival material. That race was pretty hot for so early in the season. Hopefully ATM gets the all important Cheltenham entry before being out away until March. The winner may go to the Drinmore next as well.

 

[Saxon Warrior]

Yep. That Troytown heads up from Gordon was very encouraging. I've certainly not given up on Ash Tree Meadow neither and thought he ran as well as expected against a very progressive type who himself might yet turn out to be festival material. That race was pretty hot for so early in the season. Hopefully ATM gets the all important Cheltenham entry before being out away until March. The winner may go to the Drinmore next as well.

Lobos I am sure due in part (if not largely due) to Fat Jockey, we have become so much more in tune with trainers Race Planning, and their threads through the NH season and where the journey goes, and end.

If we can pick up some money along the way, then it’s all good groundwork put in.