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2016 Gold Cup

Morning Glory said:
Probably desperate to win it himself at this stage. So long as he has the Ryanair covered Ricci could run two and Mullins five....Wylie and Gigginstown must have Gold Cup horses in the yard.
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I'm not so sure Ricci would ever want 2 of his competing against each other, when the pair of them were ruining Champagne Fever a few years ago by insisting the horse was a 2 miler when it was simply to avoid a clash with Pont Alexandre (Neptune) or Ballycasey (Potato race) or 2 years ago when competing the horse in an Arkle when he should have been winning the RSA (Ballycasey) or JLT (Djakadam).
He won one of the best Supreme's in memory and failed by a whisker to win an Arkle only because the horse had so much class not because he was a 2 miler.
6 weeks before the 2013 festival I was told by an extremely reliable source that the horse was going for the A Bartlett as they made the horse a Gold Cup winner in waiting, you certainly don't win a champion bumper and stay over the minimum trip for the rest of your career, I'm no racehorse trainer but even I know that.
Ruined, just ruined, and the horse will either miss the festival or laughably go for the Champion chase, so I've got extremely little trust that the trainer will run both Vatour and Djakadam in the Gold Cup.
5 months for him to find a reason for them to avoid each other.....
 
Again it's the mullins round about, you have endless options, I don't believe the mullins trained gigginstown horses will influence what they do too much, i would see it that they have vroum vroum mag in the ryan air and then run both djakadam and Vautour in the gold cup, or they could run Vroum Vroum mag and one of the other two in the ryan air with her, or simply one of them stays at home for a different target, personally i think they will run both in the gold cup and hope another horse trains on into a ryanair contender along with Vroum Vroum mag so they have the options, if they just chose one for the gold cup and then late in the season he gets injured i feel that they would be gutted not to have a gold cup runner when right now they have two genuine contenders
 
gjt7756 said:
Again it's the mullins round about, you have endless options, I don't believe the mullins trained gigginstown horses will influence what they do too much, i would see it that they have vroum vroum mag in the ryan air and then run both djakadam and Vautour in the gold cup, or they could run Vroum Vroum mag and one of the other two in the ryan air with her, or simply one of them stays at home for a different target, personally i think they will run both in the gold cup and hope another horse trains on into a ryanair contender along with Vroum Vroum mag so they have the options, if they just chose one for the gold cup and then late in the season he gets injured i feel that they would be gutted not to have a gold cup runner when right now they have two genuine contenders
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Hi guys, they certainly have one Ricci owned contender in Djakadam but I'm not sure about two, and neither can anyone else be until he's tried over the distance. I still think there is a strong possibility that Vautour will run in, and win, the Champion chase, whether or not UDS runs against him, but I believe UDS may well be aimed at the Ryanair. I think VVM could well be thought of at this stage by the camp to be a possible for the Ryanair for Ricci, but as a 153 rated horse she has a lot of improvement to find. I have backed Vautour to win any of the three but my biggest return by far would be if he wins in the QM, whereas I wouldn't be nearly so confident of a win in the Gold cup, that race is shaping up to be a very hot renewal and anything could run it's personal best and not finish in the first three.
All to play for at this stage and some really exciting stuff to look forward to, I think if we share our thoughts and start covering different options early in the season we could all have a very profitable few months, bring it on.
 
I get that gjt but Giggingstown have Don Poli and Don Cossack and we know they are happy pitching their horses against each other, Ricci has never done this which is why I don't see him committing both Vatour and Djakadam against each other.
My guess is he'll let Djakadam take his chance in the Gold Cup and they'll make some half baked excuse that Vatour may not stay the distance so aim that one at the Ryannair.

Meanwhile Champagne Fever will be aimed at some 6f handicap at Newmarket.....
 
I see both running in the Gold Cup if Vautour proves he stays the trip in the KG. Djakadam is last season runner-up so he'll be there unless he shows signs of regressions. I would've thought Mullins will send Faugheen chasing this season and take the RSA route as he has Nichols Canyon and Arctic Fire for the Champion Hurdle but that'd leave RR without a runner in the race unless Douvan had stayed hurdling. But back to the issue I don't see Vautour and Djakadam separated in the GC if they both show good form in the preps.
 
Vautour is due to start of in the Amlin chase which as we now is over 2m3f, hardly a stamina sapping contest and not much of a pointer toward the festival but nonetheless it is a starting point and they were always gonna start him in his comfort zone and then test him after that once he's got his full race fitness, sorry to say Mcgoldrick but i really cant see the champion chase as a viable option, I believe if Vautour doesn't run in the gold cup then it's the ryan air, if he doesn't run in the ryan air then i dont see him running at the festival at all, you are right in regards to Vroum Vroum Mag not being anywhere near on a mark to be a real contender but she has never been tested and correct me if I'm wrong but she would also get the weight allowance of 7lb so there's plenty to like in my book if she improved over the summer, have to say I can't see Faugheen going chasing, well not this season, I remember willie saying a while back when Faugheen and Vautour were both novice hurdles he believed Faugheen would be the better chaser but i see Faugheen as the yards replacement for hurricane fly now and set the standard for all the yards hurdlers and for the matter all hurdlers throughout the season
 
Hi gjt, I think I was one of the first to mention the Ryanair target for VVM, I just think she needs to find a few pounds on her previous form, perfectly feasible that she will, and I have included her in several multiples with that in mind. As regards Vautour's potential targets I still believe it could be any of the three and I have him in all of them, my thinking is that Djakadam will be Riccis Gold cup contender, but if Vautour runs in that then he has nothing in the Champion. Maybe they will aim him at the Ryanair, but I doubt it, they will want him to run in a championship race and the Ryanair isn't that. Why on earth though would they miss Cheltenham with him rather than run in the champion, I don't see UDS as a reason because another point I've made is that I think that one could be aimed at the Ryanair.
I still remember Vautour getting soundly beaten by Clarcam when there was plenty of cut in the ground, I don't think he would have folded so easily if he had the stamina for longer trips, he could prove to be the best stayer around, but the evidence from his public appearances points to there being plenty of doubt in my view. Time will tell but, as I've said before, there are precedents for horses to drop back in trip to compete in championship races at the festival, some successful, some not, but I wouldn't be lumping on him for the KG at this stage, if he runs in that and it comes up very soft he could leave his Gold cup chance at Kempton, win or lose.
 
I think Djakadam is certain to run in the GC, Vautour will be tested over 3m but can see Ryanair ending up as his race, Champ Fever being taken down QM route I believe, that could be interesting with UDS aswell but different owners, but like everything we know, injuries and other things will dictate who goes where
 
UDS is a great horse but at 2m, i may be wrong but unless he ha sreally strengthened over the summer i couldn't see him sustaining that sort of gallop that he has over 2m and would be collared by closers come the line over the ryan air trip, UDS has one race and one race only which is the champion, if thericci camp is going to run anything against UDS in the champion then surely it would be champagne fever, he is surely another horse that we have to enter into calculations when were talking about willie and the festival targets, i still thinkw they'll be happy to run both in the gold cup talking about Vautour and djakadam here, they are two very different horses and gives the camp two different ways to win the gold cup, i think with the amount of talent they have they can afford to now run two in one race, especially to capture the biggest prize of the week which I'm sure ricci is dying to add to his already enormous collection
 
Willie is also dying to get a GC winner but I'm not so sure he'll get it with Don Cossack and Coneygree lurking in there. His best option would've been to send Faugheen novice chasing and have a go next season at the GC with him. Stranger things have happened and if he won't win a GC this season with Vautour, Djakadam and Don Poli, 3 very good chasers then he won't win it in the foreseable future, unless he sends Faugheen chasing.
 
I think Willie might to like to win three champion hurdles with Faugheen first.:)

I think Paz is right about Vautour - will be given a chance to see if he gets 3 miles but could easily end up back over less. Whether the Ryanair or Champion Chase who knows. Worth remembering only Bobs Worth has won three different races in successive festivals in last 50 years and any win would be huge for Vautour. The conservative campaigning of Annie P shows they do like to win rather than aim too high. Had everone forgotten how poor this horse was last Winter ?
 
As i said faugheen is their new hurricane fly, Faugheen will not be going chasing any time soon, especially as it looks as if douvan will be going chasing, willie wouldn't leave the grade 1's to arctic fire and co. Plus it would leave ricci without a confirmed no.1 hurdler unless one of last seasons bumper horses comes good, to be fair we could go back and forth about what they are gonna do until the festival and we probably will, and thats just with these select few of djakadam, Vautour, Vroum Vroum Mag and champagne fever
 
Patrick Mullins podcast on ATR, says Vautour looks the part but will see what happens and also that Djakadam won't win Gold Cup
 
Patrick mullins on this years gold cup horses -

Most likely nothing for Haydock. 1)horses aren’t ready, 2)don’t want to give them a tough race at this time of the year 3) Willie will work back from the Gold cup instead of forward from Haydock.

Vautour – “will go for the King George then we’ll know more, but he wasn’t stopping after making all at chelt last time.”
Djakadam – “hes fat at the minute, hes a very fat horse.” “last year might have well been his chance.” Horses will run less through this year and theres no plan for him yet.
Don Poli – “just had an off day last time.” Ideal candidate for gold cup. On chelt last season – He toyed with horses – poli just took the piss out of them. No ? over him staying.
SDC – back in training. Very lazy, but looks great. Will be hard to get him back, will be difficult for him.
Vroum Vroum Mag – could be a gold cup mare, we haven’t considered the Ryanair! he hasn’t even heard it mentioned but it could be a possibility.

The hennessy – don’t think we will have anyone fit enough its been too dry. We had a gold cup horse last year and he got stuffed off 10’4! Thinks it will work out for them in the long run.
 
KingSprinterSacre said:
Patrick mullins on this years gold cup horses -

Djakadam – ” “last year might have well been his chance.” Horses will run less through this year and theres no plan for him yet.
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LOL - the horse has had 7 chase starts and is still 6 years old and already they say his chance has gone ?
Early excuse to run just the one Ricci horse in the race, a week or two out they'll say that Djakadam is more a National horse leaving Vatour as the solo Ricci entry....
 
Patrick is a good source but he's not always been great in regards to where horses will be running i have found, would rather here it from willie or ruby about their targets, i agree that how on earth can he say djakadam has had his day, surely if anything his day is yet to come, unless he's one of these largely regressive horses but that just wouldn't be like any in the ranks of mullins stable
 
Rich Ricci said yesterday on ATR - djakadam - durkan, lexus, irish hennessy then gold cup
 
Walsh on Vautour earlier today "I've always thought Vautour would be a Gold Cup horse and why wouldn't you aim for the race with him? He's a galloper - not as quick as Douvan - but has a high cruising speed and jumped good horses into the ground in the JLT at the festival. And with ricci saying that Djakadam end of season target would be the gold cup points to them both running as i've felt would be the plan all along, and you would have to say with the two different routes they're taking to the gold cup Vautour would appear the more fancied as by the time the gold cup comes round it appears as if Djakadam would aready have had a hard season if he goes for all his attended runs whereas Vautour would only have had two runs and be fresh for the gold cup
 
It's interesting to listen to the experts early opinions but I've lost count, and a lot af money, by putting too much faith in their ramblings. To say vautour wasn't stopping is true, but whether that means he automatically gets another three quarters of a mile, competitively, is another matter, he needs to be tested, and the king George isn't necessarily a great guide. I'm covered on him in all 3 possibles, and will enjoy watching him at Cheltenham but the Gold cup is, in my view, the race that he has the least chance of winning, it looks a really hot renewal this season.
I think the 14/1 available for the King George/Gold cup double is a decent bet because if he was to win the KG his price in the Gold cup will crash, so he could be laid off, if he fails in the KG he probably won't run in the Gold cup.
 
MrM - I love thought thinking with Vautour wrt the 14/1 double. Like you say, if he gets beat in the King George then I doubt he'll be going down the gold cup route. You've convinced me - I'm on!

What does everyone think of Don Cossask as a possible Gold Cup candidate? I'm far from convinced he's a Gold Cup horse - he isn't even the best contender that Gigginstown have imo.
 
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