-
HELP US - Become a Patron - Fat Jockey is a horse racing community focused on all the big races in the UK and Ireland. We don't charge users but if you have found the site useful then any support towards the running costs is appreciated ... a small donation each month would be a huge contribution. Become a Patron!
Cheltenham 2020 - Forum Yankee - March
- Thread starter Middle_Of_March
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2018
- Messages
- 3,829
- Reaction score
- 1,157
- Points
- 83
It would be bonkers imo.
He’s in search of a hat-trick in the CC. He could win the KG on the snaff by 47 lengths and he’d still go for the Champion Chase.
Question for you all... If you were pricing up Altiors Cheltenham destination next year, how would you price it. For me:
- Champion Chase 1/14
- Gold Cup 8/1
- Ryanair 10/1
What a silly thing to say?
The most exciting and best horse in training attempting to win the best race we have?
Betting aside, I'd love to see it.
I already know he'd win a 3rd QMCC...
charlie
Fat Jockey Patron (est. March 2021)
archie
Fat Jockey Patron
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2017
- Messages
- 4,907
- Reaction score
- 1,326
- Points
- 83
There is only a tiny chance that Altior will run in the Gold Cup. He's a great champion but the breeding doesn't support it and he appears to be regressing. If he faces Cyrname at Sandown I wouldn't be confident that he'd come out on top.
He will be a 10yo next year and he's more likely to be retired than run in the blue riband.
He will be a 10yo next year and he's more likely to be retired than run in the blue riband.
Is that your view or fact Kev ?
A horse who will be aged 10 at the next festival who has never been a yard further than 17f in a five year career, why would connections want to put him in a brutal 3m 2.5f staying test ?
Faugheen_Machine
Legendary Fat Jockey, Patron (est. Jan 2021) & Mod
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
- Messages
- 11,246
- Reaction score
- 1,552
- Points
- 83
It would be a crazy decision to run Altior in a gold cup at this stage of his career. It ain't happening. No chance.
Hurricane fly
Fat Jockey Patreon Est. March 2022
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,818
- Reaction score
- 852
- Points
- 83
If Altior was going to win the GC it was this year, he was noticeably below par this year in the QMCC, I know some are blaming Nico but he cost him no more than he gained him at the start.
I think he will smash the Melling Chase to pieces if Henderson takes him there and he surely has to if he wants a look at the King George. You are then stuck between a rock and a hard place as I doubt he stays the GC trip and would be perfect for the Ryanair but you can put a 2 time QMCC horse in the Ryanair. (I actually would but the racing world would be in hysterics)
So could he maybe front run at 2m?
Regardless he won’t be in the Yankee and that’s that!
Think Delta Work in the GC is the value for the race looking at the prices.
I think he will smash the Melling Chase to pieces if Henderson takes him there and he surely has to if he wants a look at the King George. You are then stuck between a rock and a hard place as I doubt he stays the GC trip and would be perfect for the Ryanair but you can put a 2 time QMCC horse in the Ryanair. (I actually would but the racing world would be in hysterics)
So could he maybe front run at 2m?
Regardless he won’t be in the Yankee and that’s that!
Think Delta Work in the GC is the value for the race looking at the prices.
Silly thing to say was in reference to you saying you'd give the game up... we know that isn't true
Two facts - You've backed him to win another QMCC, he's being aimed at the King George.
Opinion - If you hadn't backed him already, you wouldn't be defending it so stubbornly that there is a CHANCE he runs in the Gold Cup.
You were equally sure Laurina would run in the Mares race this year?
I see Unibet have clipped Altior in to 16s for the Gold Cup today too (from 20s).
Also, "brutal test"? Do you want to do away with the Gold Cup? Has Altior not looked like a strong stayer? If he wins the King George like a stayer, you're bananas to dismiss the possibility of him going for a Gold Cup.
No chance?
None?
You can't think of any way it happens?
See post #30
There is 'no chance' he runs in the Ryanair.... that I'd agree with.
Silly thing to say was in reference to you saying you'd give the game up... we know that isn't true
Two facts - You've backed him to win another QMCC, he's being aimed at the King George.
Opinion - If you hadn't backed him already, you wouldn't be defending it so stubbornly that there is a CHANCE he runs in the Gold Cup.
You were equally sure Laurina would run in the Mares race this year?
I see Unibet have clipped Altior in to 16s for the Gold Cup today too (from 20s).
Also, "brutal test"? Do you want to do away with the Gold Cup? Has Altior not looked like a strong stayer? If he wins the King George like a stayer, you're bananas to dismiss the possibility of him going for a Gold Cup.
Where did the suggestion come to do away with the Gold Cup ?
That’s confused me.
Personally, I think there’s a world of difference between a flat right handed 3m King George and a Gold Cup, top class stayers do well in both because they’re top class stayers, Alrior has done nothing to suggest he is capable of that double and if he did have that ability I would have expected Nicky Henderson to have considered this at some point earlier in his career.
I can’t see the Laurina analogy, different animals at different stages of their careers.
As for Unibet, they don’t offer a lay option so anyone pressung buttons/picking up the phone is a backer, it’s not in their interests nor is
it necessary for them to offer huge value, bookmakers rarely do...
It was the shoe-horning of the word Brutal into describing the Gold Cup. If anything, at 'that stage' of Altior's career, it matters less than ever what it takes out of him?
If Altior won the King George, he's a dual QMCC winner, a King George winner, and could have a shot at immortality winning a Gold Cup. He'd be discussed alongside Kauto Star, and rightly so.
If he wins a 3rd QMCC, he's still going to be seen as a lesser horse than other two mile chaers before him.
The Laurina analogy was just me pointing out that you can be wrong about a target that you are sticking to all the way through
I am not saying I think Altior will run in the Gold Cup... I'm just saying you have dismissed it and at 3/1, you shouldn't have.
Regarding Unibet, if they are 'standout' price... as the bookies representitive, I think it'd be naive to assume it had no relevance... but generally you're right, and at this stage nobody would be in the know anyway.
If Altior won the King George, he's a dual QMCC winner, a King George winner, and could have a shot at immortality winning a Gold Cup. He'd be discussed alongside Kauto Star, and rightly so.
If he wins a 3rd QMCC, he's still going to be seen as a lesser horse than other two mile chaers before him.
The Laurina analogy was just me pointing out that you can be wrong about a target that you are sticking to all the way through
I am not saying I think Altior will run in the Gold Cup... I'm just saying you have dismissed it and at 3/1, you shouldn't have.
Regarding Unibet, if they are 'standout' price... as the bookies representitive, I think it'd be naive to assume it had no relevance... but generally you're right, and at this stage nobody would be in the know anyway.
Last edited:
I don't think anyone can say 3/1 is value 360 days out. 3/1 doesn't even cover injury risk, never mind target risk.
He might not stay the GC trip, but you may as well take the KG stepping stone and see how he takes in that. If he's mighty impressive, then you have to try the GC. Don't buy that he would have been targeted at it earlier, that champion chase double was an obvious target.
He might not stay the GC trip, but you may as well take the KG stepping stone and see how he takes in that. If he's mighty impressive, then you have to try the GC. Don't buy that he would have been targeted at it earlier, that champion chase double was an obvious target.
Morning, what's everyone ones best yankee/L15 for Cheveley Park, for a bit of fun. Mines a trixie..
Supreme - MALONE ROAD
Ballymore - ENVOI ALLEN
Ryanair - A PLUS TARD
I find in really interesting how well they've done so quickly.
Supreme - MALONE ROAD
Ballymore - ENVOI ALLEN
Ryanair - A PLUS TARD
I find in really interesting how well they've done so quickly.
Minella Indo for the RSA at 20/1?
Confident going chasing, a better horse than Monalee? Monalee didn't do bad for the same connections...?
1 better in the Albert Bartlett.... can he go 1 better in the RSA chase?
Final Furlong (Blake) very sweet on him and Nick Luck too...
Not a wild price, but 20/1 for the AB winner for the Novice Chase 3m race isn't unfair.... you know for damn sure if he was with Elliott or Mullins he'd be half the price! (I see he's 12s with BFSB and PP so they're ducking him)
Confident going chasing, a better horse than Monalee? Monalee didn't do bad for the same connections...?
1 better in the Albert Bartlett.... can he go 1 better in the RSA chase?
Final Furlong (Blake) very sweet on him and Nick Luck too...
Not a wild price, but 20/1 for the AB winner for the Novice Chase 3m race isn't unfair.... you know for damn sure if he was with Elliott or Mullins he'd be half the price! (I see he's 12s with BFSB and PP so they're ducking him)
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2018
- Messages
- 3,829
- Reaction score
- 1,157
- Points
- 83
I think I’d rather Commander of Fleet to overturn the form. He’s always looked a staying chaser. RSA looks perfectly for the horse
SeanRock
Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 2,307
- Reaction score
- 651
- Points
- 83
Tbh Next Destination or Carefully Selected appeal far more at the prices to me than COF. Minella Indo did impress massively doing everything he could to give the race away but still winning with plenty in hand, he’ll be a 7yr old next year which is a plus! The extra maturity MI & the Mullins horses have does give them an edge in my eyes.
Topofthegame & Santini were 7yr olds. As was Presenting Percy last year...
Last edited: