Cheltz Fest 2021 Behind Closed Doors ?

[Saxon Warrior]

Did the bookmakers keep all of the ARC WEEKEND antepost bets on those final decs AOB's horses who couldn't run because of contaminated horse-feed?

[charlie]

The most important point re Irish horses travelling over is IMO the simplest one - it's very very easy for it to be done safely with no risk or harm to any members of the public.

The aim is always to get the horse from A to B as quickly as possible, and it's just not logistically difficult to do it safely. Staff could be tested before they leave, confined to their lorries/horse boxes in transit, then tested on arrival in Cheltenham, then isolated there or nearby with other staff that have gone through the same process.

There is more than enough time for this type of system to be well thought through, and executed for March.

[Nortons who]

[QUOTE=EnvoyAllen;n267820]

On all 3 accounts, none of us, however harsh it sounds, has any idea how this is going to play out. The government don't; so we the punter simply cannot even begin to foresee what might happen. Surely??

EA - I agree with almost everything in your excellent post and Spectre's apart from your point above.

I think as astute punters we can foresee exactly what might happen and I expect that for the vast majority of us on here the worst outcome would be that the Irish horses do not travel and the bookies stick with their existing AP published rules and don't refund a penny.

So we can either just accept that and say well thats life or as I and some others have suggested we could attempt to mitigate that eg by backing Irish horses from now NRNB terms only or looking to include a few more UK runners in our books.

Currently we are all hoping that there is sufficient time between now and the Festival for this risk not to come to fruition but each of us can if we so choose do some things to mitigate this risk. After all its exactly the sort of thing which AP punters are usually very good at.

[EnvoyAllen]

The complications this poses is one of a few fundamental reasons I would expect travel exceptions for the Festival if we are still in Level 4 lockdown. I don’t foresee the Irish horses staying at home. Strict arrangements are sure to be put in place. As a betting man I’d lay short odds on the Irish horses being here.

If I’m wrong I’d expect the worst situation is the bookmakers will refund bets. The don’t have to but they will. They will not want to be seen profiting from Covid, even if they can. The bad feeling, and public and Government pressure would be far worse for business than the relatively small market they have antepost. I’d be very surprised if the ante post market is particularly profitable for them anyway, and in actual fact I think Covid has caused a lot more shrewd punters to get their act together earlier with a bundle of big odds on the right horses than ever before. A break even situation by refunding bets is hardly a disaster compared to the liabilities. The upside of just raking in ante post cash just isn’t worth it in the long term. The Bookmakers already fear what the Government may do with both taxes and the levy, and I expect them to avoid playing with fire. If they do they are likely to get severely burnt.

I think this is one of the most intelligible points made on this subject thread. Some very good points here Mr Spectre.

There has been (and will remain going forwards for the next few weeks at least) a lot of opinion and conjecture on ‘Will Cheltenham go ahead? / Will the Irish horses be allowed to travel over? etc,etc. The harshest of all truths is - not a single person - the punter, the bookie, the trainers, the owners, government officials, scientific head honcho’s like Whitty & Valance even Boris J himself, will not have a clue whereabouts we are with this situation being reasonably ‘contained’ in the next 2 months. Yes, bookmakers and punters right now might be start ‘preparing’ themselves for the all eventualities....

But for people (the punter) to say “the bookmakers should be doing this” or “the bookmakers will be doing that” is incredulous - we simply have not a single jot of an idea of where we are likely to be with regards a) whether Irish horses potentially might face a travel ban......b) If this is to be the case, would the Jockey Club then decide to cancel the festival like they did in 2001.....and c) If this is would be the case, the bookmakers stance on refunding ante post bets.

On all 3 accounts, none of us, however harsh it sounds, has any idea how this is going to play out. The government don’t, so we the punter simply cannot even begin to foresee what might happen. Surely??

Mr Spectre’s points here though are very good. Would a refund of all ante post bets be beneficial to the bookmakers? It’s a very interesting point, and one in which only the bookmakers accountants currently know. It would be more than obvious to suggest that just like Annie Power falling at the last in the Mare’s Hurdle of 2015 saving the bookmaking industry a reputed ?140 million in payouts on that Ricci/Mullins acca that was rolling that day, both wins especially for Shishkin & Envoi Allen as an example would at a humble guess, cost the bookmakers a similar hefty figure, I’m sure. Though both horses were reasonably short even ‘post’ last year’s festival, I could imagine a hell of a lot of money has shortened them both into evens and shorter. So from a bookmaker’s point of view, would all bets to be refunded be beneficial to them, or one (or both) of these get beaten and the bookies have earned a right winner.

The idea that it would be great ‘Public Relations’ if the bookmakers return all ‘lost’ ante post bets if the Irish horses aren’t allowed to travel or the festival is actually cancelled’ is a rosy one, and let’s hope that might be the case, for every single one of us. But again, the harshest of truths, and the absolute realistic way of making sense of it all is the fact that should the bookmakers NOT return a single ante post bet placed thus far, and we all believe their reputation is in tatters, do we honestly believe they really care? Will it affect their business going forwards? I’d say it’s highly unlikely. We’ll all be angry and frustrated, but we’ll be back within a few days or weeks, because that’s what a punter does, and the way he or she thinks We will always be back. The industry has no loyalty to the punter. It never has and never will. That’s the harshest of truths.

Let’s of course hope that none of this comes to fruition in March and that we can all enjoy the Festival with all of our bets in still in place, and all of the conjecture of the ‘will they?/should they?/would they? questions be a distant memory.

[ryanh97]

...... and maybe an appointment with Specsavers

And stop to see the nearest castle on the way

[Pendil]

Worse case scenario, could it be an “ essential” drive to a William Hills, in a Tier 3 area?

...... and maybe an appointment with Specsavers

[Istabraq]

Worse case scenario, could it be an “ essential” drive to a William Hills, in a Tier 3 area?

Yep, nearest is the Isles of Scilly I think...

[Saxon Warrior]

Saxon Warrior
The big attraction re Hills back in April was the ability to use horses in the ‘any race’ market in multiples, I got a few in before they stopped allowing that but then, like you, kept using boosts and the free scratchcard bets.
I know there are far bigger issues in the world but access to a Hills shop before March will be fairly crucial for me...

Worse case scenario, could it be an “ essential” drive to a William Hills, in a Tier 3 area?

[Istabraq]

Saxon Warrior
The big attraction re Hills back in April was the ability to use horses in the ‘any race’ market in multiples, I got a few in before they stopped allowing that but then, like you, kept using boosts and the free scratchcard bets.
I know there are far bigger issues in the world but access to a Hills shop before March will be fairly crucial for me...

[Saxon Warrior]

No idea SW.
I was red carded about 15 years ago but during lockdown I thought I’d re-visit all my banned accounts just to see if any had re-considered, Hills said I could play horses but not sports.
I loaded the account several times and the net deposits far outweighed the withdrawals, all I did was build an ante post portfolio and the account was randomly restricted one weekend.
It didn’t make any sense at the time but I’ve lost so many accs for no apparent reason it’s not worth wasting time thinking about.
Of course in September shops were open in my area, as were pubs, and the local Hills shop was conveniently on my walk to the local, it’s a worry shops might not open for some time I have to say....

Yes, I’m the same with Hills, no idea why, pattern of play with the antepost price boosts that they pushed at me day after day maybe!
Now can’t use the shops as Tier 4 for a while, but will look forward to a visit there pre-Festival maybe.

[Istabraq]

What “did for” your Billy Hills account, Ista?

No idea SW.
I was red carded about 15 years ago but during lockdown I thought I’d re-visit all my banned accounts just to see if any had re-considered, Hills said I could play horses but not sports.
I loaded the account several times and the net deposits far outweighed the withdrawals, all I did was build an ante post portfolio and the account was randomly restricted one weekend.
It didn’t make any sense at the time but I’ve lost so many accs for no apparent reason it’s not worth wasting time thinking about.
Of course in September shops were open in my area, as were pubs, and the local Hills shop was conveniently on my walk to the local, it’s a worry shops might not open for some time I have to say....

[Saxon Warrior]

They cop alot of shit do Hills for their lack of NRNB but their prices reflect that, personally I think it’s a good thing because you get the best of both worlds in getting NRNB insurance with others and a better price with Hills, if you have accounts you can take your pick.
It’s unfortunate my account went in September and shops don’t look like opening any time soon but the majority in here do have most options available...

What “did for” your Billy Hills account, Ista?

[Istabraq]

I'd say Hills will be the harshest, proper letter of the law merchants. They don't even do NRNB

They cop alot of shit do Hills for their lack of NRNB but their prices reflect that, personally I think it’s a good thing because you get the best of both worlds in getting NRNB insurance with others and a better price with Hills, if you have accounts you can take your pick.
It’s unfortunate my account went in September and shops don’t look like opening any time soon but the majority in here do have most options available...

[robith]

For info, the response I received from William Hill.

"Thanks for your email.

As it currently stand, the rules being followed on Antepost UK & Irish horse racing is below:

6. An ante-post bet will be made void under the following circumstances:

• The race is cancelled and is not run.
• A horse is balloted out under the rules of racing.
• The race is run at an alternative venue to the one originally scheduled.
• Entries for the race are re-opened.

https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15310/kw/antepost

If there'll be any changes or announcements in relation to Cheltenham 2021, this will be announced on the website once we have official news regarding this."

I'd say Hills will be the harshest, proper letter of the law merchants. They don't even do NRNB

[Faugheen_Machine]

For info, the response I received from William Hill.

"Thanks for your email.

As it currently stand, the rules being followed on Antepost UK & Irish horse racing is below:

6. An ante-post bet will be made void under the following circumstances:

• The race is cancelled and is not run.
• A horse is balloted out under the rules of racing.
• The race is run at an alternative venue to the one originally scheduled.
• Entries for the race are re-opened.

https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15310/kw/antepost

If there'll be any changes or announcements in relation to Cheltenham 2021, this will be announced on the website once we have official news regarding this."

I wouldn't worry about it until it happens. It's the smallest of smallest margins that they can't travel by March, imo.