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2017 Triumph Hurdle

Kevloaf

Apparently came 3rd overall in the Fantasy Premier
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Not sure if I can start my own thread or whether 'we' just bump the previous years... regardless, today seems a good day to discuss this one with this news:

Joseph O'Brien looks to have significantly increased his chances of winning the JCB Triumph Hurdle in his own right this season after acquiring a batch of Coolmore-bred three-year-olds from his father's stable.

The fledgling handler didn't have his licence when Ivanovich Gorbatov won last season's Triumph Hurdle and, while the young O'Brien had prepared him for the race to all intents and purposes, it was Aidan's name that appeared on the racecard.

However, Joseph is now fully operative as a trainer and has sent out 20 winners already this Irish National Hunt season, with the acquisition of 11 three-year-olds from his father's yard a major boost in his first full season with a licence.

The Irish Independent have reported that all of the horses will run in JP McManus' famous green and gold colours, like Ivanovich Gorbatov, while seven of the new recruits are sons of Galileo and six of them are rated over 100.

St Leger third Housesofparliament is the most highly-rated as he achieved an official rating of 113 on the Flat, while the 110-rated Sword Fighter, who won at Royal Ascot, is also among the number to move to Piltown.

The Major General, rated 109 on the level, was half-a-length second to Ulysses in the Gordon Stakes at Glorious Goodwood and he's the third best of the bunch to make the switch to hurdling.

The other Galileos that will be gelded and sent over timber are Triplicate (rated 101), Unicorn (96), Big Ben (93) and Bhutan (no rating, but did beat Housesofparliament by three lengths when winning a maiden on his only visit to the track).

Tree Of Knowledge (102, by Oasis Dream), Landofhopeandglory (102, High Chaparral), Cook Islands (96, Fastnet Rock) and Immortal Bridge (84, Fastnet Rock) complete the potentially formidable team of juvenile hurdlers.

Sky Bet go 11/4 that Joseph O'Brien wins the 2017 Triumph Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival and spokesman Michael Shinners said: "JP McManus' relentless pursuit of trying to find the next Istabraq looks to have stepped up significantly and he looks like he means business this season.

"It's not often a horse rated as highly as 113 on the Flat goes hurdling and Housesofparliament is a particularly exciting addition to the jumping ranks and one we'll be keeping an eye on throughout the campaign.

"With such an array of talent at his disposal the Triumph Hurdle could well be heading McManus' way again and we go 11/4 that Joseph trains the winner after he effectively did last season."
 
So what did everyone make of Defi Du Seuil at the weekend?

I'm not overly keen on juvenile races and never really like to have a play too early in this race but the 16's on offer still looks very fair. Took to the course really well, tanked along and run very easily eased down by Barry Geraghty

Of him and landofhopeandglory i was far more impressed with DDS. Ideally I'd want to see how the form of DDS race works out as last season showed us the juveniles were so inconsistent with the form being turned around week by week and I know Joseph has a battalion of juveniles to go to war with this year so it really is probably a market to wait right now but i'm tempted in with that price.
 
I was impressed jono but as said, Triumph winners rarely show their hand in November so plenty of others to show their value yet.
Defi dis save me from a poor day tho....
 
I learned the hard way last season... Rashaan was talked up as an early Triumph hope, I bought it... despite hearing Triumph winners aren't out before Christmas.... didn't even run.

Mixed feelings about him turning Apples Jade over this season haha
 
I learned the hard way last season... Rashaan was talked up as an early Triumph hope, I bought it... despite hearing Triumph winners aren't out before Christmas.... didn't even run.

Mixed feelings about him turning Apples Jade over this season haha

This is actually a myth. Henderson with Soldatino and Nicholls with Zarkandar pulled this off in recent years but they are in the minority.
 
agree Jackie, these are the last 10 Triumph winners and the month they made their British or Irish debuts in the season when they won the Triumph:
16 Ivan Gor December
15 Peace and Co December
14 Tiger Roll November
13 Our Connor November
12 Countrywide Flame December
11 Zarkandar February
10 Soldatino January
09 Zaynar December
08 Celestial Halo December
07 Katchit September
 
agree Jackie, these are the last 10 Triumph winners and the month they made their British or Irish debuts in the season when they won the Triumph:
16 Ivan Gor December
15 Peace and Co December
14 Tiger Roll November
13 Our Connor November
12 Countrywide Flame December
11 Zarkandar February
10 Soldatino January
09 Zaynar December
08 Celestial Halo December
07 Katchit September

Exactly, only 2 made their debuts after Xmas. Nicholls does actually attempt it every year and targets a debutante at the Adonis at Kempton in late February. Last year was Zubayr he won the Adonis but could not follow up at Cheltenham.
 
On the flip side of that though, 7 of the ten hadn't made their debut by the end of November. So it's still heavily odds on that we haven't seen the triumph hurdle winner yet
 
That'll teach me for making a rash comment haha
 
That'll teach me for making a rash comment haha

If you believe Joseph has the winner in his ranks then there is a good chance it might happen this year. He's only just taken in his new recruits and they'll need gelding and schooling before being unleashed. I would think a good few of them will not be seen until after Xmas.
 
You have to consider ground too.
Generally bottomless in Ireland from now to Cheltenham so ex flat types who like quick ground either won't be seen or certainly not seen at their best, and every chance they're kept ticking over at home rather than flogged in bogs on a racecourse....
 
You have to consider ground too.
Generally bottomless in Ireland from now to Cheltenham so ex flat types who like quick ground either won't be seen or certainly not seen at their best, and every chance they're kept ticking over at home rather than flogged in bogs on a racecourse....

Winter juvenile races are for the Fred Winter plots ;)
 
Top price of 10s now for Landofhopeandglory ... this could become a Joseph benefit over the years like the mares race seems to be for Mullins.

Going to be really hard for yards to compete with what is happening here? Not sure which trainers target the race, Alan King possibly? Nicholls? ... Runners I'm sure but Nicholls certainly is aiming for the future no matter what happens...

Bhutan and Sword Fighter I am interested in seeing out...
 
I think it's quite interesting he is still 10/1.. I would of thought with all the hype he would be shorter, maybe there is a couple of good ones in Joseph's yard that connections think more of.. Remember Ivan gorbatov last year, was 3/1 after his debut
 
I wouldn't be amazed if Sword Fighter or Bhutan usurp Landofhopeandglory by festival time...

A good friend of mine text me today saying he has had a wedge on landofhopeandglory because "it'll be just like IG" but I don't see it.... if the Triumph was tomorrow, then sure, you'd back him... but we have 3 months to go and I feel like something will improve past him (that hasn't been out yet)....



For the Fred Winter, isn't it going to be obvious as soon as a horse is entered that it is a plot job.... I can see a JP horse going off near evens for that haha
 
Dinaria des Obeaux hacked up at Cork on Sunday winning by 29 lengths and looked good. She was another of the ex Mullins horses that is now with Elliott.

Personally I've been more taken with Defi du Seuil over Landofhopeandglory so far. If it was between the 2 come March i'd expect Geragthy to side with the Hobbs runner and beat him - just looks a really classy and mature horse already at this stage.

I have little engagement with the flat (i'd rather review the past seasons national hunt season and start building up an antepost portfolio for the next season in the summer months ;) so bar ratings and hear say I can't really comment on the flat horses now with Joseph but I would be amazed if there's not another out of that amount of horses that is either on par or ahead of LOHAG. It's the only reason i've held off backing DDS so far.

For the Fred Winter, isn't it going to be obvious as soon as a horse is entered that it is a plot job.... I can see a JP horse going off near evens for that haha

Even with the amount of potential talent he'll have a job to beat Paul Nicolls recent Fred Winter record...

2015:

1st - Qualando
2nd - Bouvreuil
5th - All Yours

Exacta paid £481.40

2016: (albeit fortunate with Voix du Reve & Campeador falling at the last)

1st - Diego du Charmil
2nd - Romain de Senam

Exacta paid £141.20

2014:

2nd - Katgary
4th - Keltus

2013:

2nd - Caid Du Berlais
3rd - Ptit Zig
 
Trainer of Defi Du Seuil has noted that he might be a soft ground horse.

Not in the game of laying ante post and certainly not at these prices but I don't think either will be on my radar on the day
 
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Where did you hear or read that Kevloaf?

I've been really taken by DDS, think he's far ahead of LOHAG Probably prematurely but I thought he travelled and jumped superbly last time...too well for a horse looking for soft or slower, but I'm sure Phillip Hobbs knows better than me
 
I read it as a trainer comment. Just had a brief look and he mentions soft ground at Chepstow over Xmas wouldn't be a problem for DDS but it was definitely a more specific comment about good ground ... I'll try and find it tonight.


Sword Fighter and Housesofparliment are out over Christmas ... I'm expecting a big shake up in this market