General Chat

[ComplyOrDie]

THELEME looks to be out for the season

Yeah.

Betfair still offering full cash out for those that used them :encouragement:

 

[Yosser]

Anybody ever bought the Timeform horses to follow? I bought Paul Fergusoms horses to follow yesterday whilst I am waiting on my OJA copy and am thoroughly enjoying ploughing through it. I've just ordered the timeform equivalent for tomorrow so I can have a read over the weekend. I assume it's all pretty much the same stuff covering the same horses

 

[Ballybeen]

Just watched the Let’s talk racing episode with Gavin Lynch and Josh Stacey mentioned at the start that he’s heard 26th September could be the day for Cheltenham to announce the changes to the festival.

The sun racing have tweeted a pic of apparent changes.

NH chase now a 0-145 novice handicap with pro jockeys allowed.

chasers now need 4 runs and hurdlers 5 for non novice handicaps.

no penalties for winning races before mares novices hurdle.

winners of pertemps qualifiers get first refusal to run in final.

turners and cross country as the already discussed changes.

 

[jono]

The sun racing have tweeted a pic of apparent changes.

NH chase now a 0-145 novice handicap with pro jockeys allowed.

chasers now need 4 runs and hurdlers 5 for non novice handicaps.

no penalties for winning races before mares novices hurdle.

winners of pertemps qualifiers get first refusal to run in final.

turners and cross country as the already discussed changes.

So there’s a

3 mile 6 handicap chase
3 mile 2 handicap chase
3 mile handicap chase

Clever…​

Cheltenham thinking making more and more races into handicaps is going to make it all better

:stupid:

 

[Faugheen_Machine]

So there’s a

3 mile 6 handicap chase
3 mile 2 handicap chase
3 mile handicap chase

Clever…​

Cheltenham thinking making more and more races into handicaps is going to make it all better

:stupid:

I'm assuming the NHC is still for novices only. It would be bonkers otherwise.

 

[Atlantic Viking]

3 less races to bother with antepost, tremendous. From a 4miler to 0-145 filth.

 

[ComplyOrDie]

3 less races to bother with antepost, tremendous. From a 4miler to 0-145 filth.

Absolute ridiculous.

They're not improvements, IMO.

Making G1's & G2's into handicaps is not the way forward.

Also love the way they are doing everything in their power to stop Willie & Gordon winning handicap hurdles with novices :highly_amused:

They'll just start buying 3 or 4 raced novices from France, instead of the once or twice raced.

 

[SeanRock]

The BANC will be a 30 runner minefield at this rate.

Will probably be a better spectacle for the ordinary joe but for antepost fans it’s worked out terribly!

 

[Benjy23]

The BANC will be a 30 runner minefield at this rate.

Will probably be a better spectacle for the ordinary joe but for antepost fans it’s worked out terribly!

That's the intention isn't it. Make every race a better spectacle for the average Joe. I'd say it's every chance of working as well. Arkle and BANC both be more stacked now you'd think. As well as the two novice handicaps stacked with plots...

​​​​​​Antepost fans, who are generally the core racing fans, aren't really the consideration.

 

[SeanRock]

That's the intention isn't it. Make every race a better spectacle for the average Joe. I'd say it's every chance of working as well. Arkle and BANC both be more stacked now you'd think. As well as the two novice handicaps stacked with plots...

​​​​​​Antepost fans, who are generally the core racing fans, aren't really the consideration.

100%, antepost fans & racing purists in general aren’t at the forefront of the powers that be’s plans in all this, the layout needed a rejig biut not to this extent, ironically most of us are the regulars that pay our way ticket wise year in year out.

 

[Yosser]

I thought the BHA were trying to stop handicap plots? They have created 3 more. 3 races not to bother with until after Christmas. Losing the NHC and Turners as graded races is a real kick to the AP returns.

Horses who are or likely to be hovering around the mark for the NHC at this stage we have :-

Sandor Clegane rated 145 over fences
Three Card Brag 146

Hurdlers going chasing

Loughlynn 140 over hurdles
Lecky Watson 143

The most interesting one unfortunately for me because of a BANC bet is Shanagh Bob at 134

 

[Kautostar]

That's the intention isn't it. Make every race a better spectacle for the average Joe. I'd say it's every chance of working as well. Arkle and BANC both be more stacked now you'd think. As well as the two novice handicaps stacked with plots...

​​​​​​Antepost fans, who are generally the core racing fans, aren't really the consideration.

Doubt it when Mullins had an odds fav for the Arkle the social runners will head elsewhere so they don’t ruin their handicap mark and we still get 5/6 runners.

 

[Exar Essay]

I’m prepared to give it a chance. I like the streamlining of the novice chases and it could create some high quality racing. I also like the jeopardy of the Tuners being an open handicap. If you’ve got a horse you think is well in, you could run him there no matter his rating. Say Firefox is rated low 150s going into the festival, Gordon may well run him in the turners off top weight rather than taking in Ballyburn.

Removing the Mares penalty is obvious and should be extended to the Mares Chase.

The NHC should’ve gone back to what it was. The distance alone would’ve put off anything with Grade One aspirations. But something needed to be done. The carefully controlled affair last year was diabolical.

I’m fine with the changes to handicaps, particularly as there are now two novice handicaps. However, I think it a little unfair on the hurdlers which no novice event.

I like the XC change. As well as making for a more competitive race, it should also push those Grade 1 animals to the Ryanair or GC.

The pertemps means little on initial thought. Although perhaps, you may get some very lowly rated things qualifying. No need to make sure you’re 130odd rated now.

Overall, I’m not sure I’d have made the exact changes they have or of the timing of the changes. But I’m prepared to give it a go.

 

[Lobos]

I'll definitely be saving more money now for the week itself and reduce my AP bets leaving out the Turners, XCC and NHC . Would normally have a good play in those 3. Could work out better but might not.

 

[Imperial Commander]

Absolute ridiculous.

They're not improvements, IMO.

Making G1's & G2's into handicaps is not the way forward.

Also love the way they are doing everything in their power to stop Willie & Gordon winning handicap hurdles with novices :highly_amused:

They'll just start buying 3 or 4 raced novices from France, instead of the once or twice raced.

Yes - and the French will be quite happy to run them to lose a few more times if it keeps the big money conveyor belt going towards Closutton!

 

[Kautostar]

More handicaps over graded races is a bad move imo. The bookies will love it and your once a year punter but for those of us who take ante post betting seriously it’s making our job to make a profit a lot harder as the turners and NHC were generally easy money.

 

[Faugheen_Machine]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

 

[HoldenTheReins]

Should be renamed/rebranded to the Cheltenham Handicap Festival

 

[Benjy23]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

Agree with most of the this. The difficulty is a lot of racing purists are antepost punters. And it becomes difficult for many to see past this...

The changes are largely positive for sure. The problem they've made for themselves is they want it to last four days but want to make it more competitive. The only way of doing that is diluting the average race quality... Which is exactly what they've done really.

​​​​​

 

[JackieMoon33]

I think people are forgetting what the festival used to be like when it was 3 days.

There was no Turners, and the NHC was as far from a graded race as you can imagine. The 4 graded novice chases is a recent phenomenon that needed addressing as there aren't enough good horses to make them competitive.

These changes don't go far enough for me but they are a step in the right direction. It looks like progress anyway.

I can't imagine ante post enthusiasts were thought about but racing purists were imo.

How good will it be to watch the best novices take each other on at the sports premier meeting, rather than dodging each other like they have for the last 10-15 years.

The Albert Bartlett and Ryanair should be next for the chop.

The problem with ditching the AB is that it won't cause a whole bunch of horses to run in the Gallaghers instead. The real 'dodging' happens between the Supreme and the Gallaghers as horses that are competitive in those races, would be in the other race too. The horses that do well in the AB would have no chance in the Gallaghers so you're not going to increase the quality or numbers by ditching the AB. The AB is the one novice hurdle that consistently has a big field and an open betting market, even on the day. And the way the breeding industry is going in UK/IRE, we're likely to have more stayers in the horse population in the coming years.