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Gold Cup 2021

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  • Might interest some - Sky doing a special on which race Royal P, will race in NHC 4/5, GC 11/8, RSA 4s and Marsh 10s. If does not race at Cheltenham will be a NR bet.
    Last edited by Magpie; 23 January 2021, 04:24 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Magpie View Post
      Might interest some - Sky doing a special on which race Royal P, will race in NHC 4/5, GC 11/8, RSA 4s and Marsh 10s. If does not race at Cheltenham will be a NR bet.
      Gold Cup "opened up" 6/4 when they mentioned it on RTV.

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      • Originally posted by Rhinestone_Cowboy View Post
        Other thing to consider is that this year he won’t have to face Monkfish and EA, which could make the race look more competitive next year. Haven’t backed him yet for any race but thought the Gold Cup field has looked pretty bland all season and needed something to come from left field to spice it up. Personally hope he goes here.
        I agree totally.

        Next year with Envoi Allen and Monkfish added to it, is more difficult IMHO to this years running.

        Royal Pagaille should go for the Gold Cup.
        Owner got seconditus in the race with Djakadam, this is his chance to go one place better.

        Definitely shouldn’t take same owner Monkfish on.
        "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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        • Originally posted by Saxon Warrior View Post

          I agree totally.

          Next year with Envoi Allen and Monkfish added to it, is more difficult IMHO to this years running.

          Royal Pagaille should go for the Gold Cup.
          Owner got seconditus in the race with Djakadam, this is his chance to go one place better.

          Definitely shouldn’t take same owner Monkfish on.
          I don’t.

          Not necessarily anyway.

          Next year the best gold cup horse of recent generations will either not be running or regressing at best. Envoi Allen and Monkfish haven’t even proved they’re good enough to win a Marsh or an RSA yet, let alone proved they’re top class over 3m 2 1/2 furlongs.

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          • Originally posted by Kevloaf View Post

            What difference does it make with what the handicapper does?

            He's not going for a handicap is he


            Letting the handicapper decide (meaning 'if he gives him a big rating, they'll try it') is silly, 'cos he definitely will. They love getting the big numbers out
            Spot on with that last comment, as impressive as he was today i don't think he had to be any better than lto, inevitably they will give him a monster figure as they often do to top weights winning hcaps. Off topic a little but it will be the same with Brewin he has not had to run to 148 today imo but he will get raised above that figure no doubt, default rise for winning instead of what the performance was.
            Last edited by Outlaw; 23 January 2021, 05:53 PM.

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            • Just watched Peter Marsh back. Boy did he win that well. Race broke up a bit but he couldn't win any easier. His jumping was immaculate and he has a big stride and engine on him. Reminds me a lot of Cavvies Clown who finished 2nd in a GC. I don't think there's any doubt they'll go that way now and , in a fairly open year bar ABP, he could easily place if he gets a bit of dig in the ground. I'd be very interested in him in the without market on the day. A few fair few on here owe Spectre a beer for highlighting him in the first place. Good spot !

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              • A good performance for sure but let’s keep in mind the next three horses in the betting to him failed to finish.
                I’d probably go GC with him if he were mine but I don’t think he warrants 10/1 at this stage. Surely he and monkfish would be similarly priced in their respective races should they both take the novice route but which do you think would have the better chance in a gold cup this year?

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                • Reckon it's 1-4 on Royal Pagaille targets the Gold Cup, 4-1 against the National Hunt Chase - and name your own price he takes on Monkfish in the RSA.

                  They obviously think he's a star and IMO they are going to have loftier ambitions than winning the NH Chase.

                  And why go 3m 6f when he performs like today over 3m 1f?

                  Saxon is spot on when he says next year's Gold Cup could take an awful lot more winning.

                  Things also fall nicely into place for Royal Pigaille to take this Gold Cup route this season.

                  Ricci has yet to win the blue riband and doesn't have a contender this year.

                  Tom Scu is probably going to be available to ride if they decide not to go with the stable jockey.

                  Royal Pigaille is in the form of his life and the Gold Cup field is average at best apart from Al Boum Photo.

                  Also, 7-year-olds have a great record in the Gold Cup - 6 winners in the last 19 years (only bettered by 8-year-olds with 7 in that period).

                  Really impressed with RP's economical jumping today and if it comes up soft he would take some beating in the big one.

                  Interesting to see that in his 15 career runs the soundest surface he's raced on is soft.

                  Would he be as good if it was good to soft?

                  Who knows.

                  The other downsides are that has yet to beat any real top notchers and hasn't been tested at Cheltenham.

                  But on a soft surface I could see him going off second favourite in the GC and having a big chance.

                  I'd take him over Minella Indo, Santini and A Plus Tard at this stage (maybe even Melon ( ).

                  And I don't think Al Boum Photo would want to slog it out with him if it came up soft.

                  Certainly making me feel a bit less optimistic about my ABP multiples - but I just can't see connections settling for the National Hunt Chase so Galvin may escape having to take him on.

                  Well done Spectre for talking him up - needless to say, I haven't got a penny on.





                  Last edited by nortonscoin200; 23 January 2021, 06:32 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by Outlaw View Post

                    Spot on with that last comment, as impressive as he was today i don't think he had to be any better than lto, inevitably they will give him a monster figure as they often do to top weights winning hcaps. Off topic a little but it will be the same with Brewin he has not had to run to 148 today imo but he will get raised above that figure no doubt, default rise for winning instead of what the performance was.
                    He ran off the same rating (156) that Rouge Vif did when he bolted up by 8 lengths a 2M Handicap at Cheltenham back in October.

                    We know what RV did when raised in class to Grade 1 and 2 races.

                    We don’t know Royal Pagaille’s ceiling though yet, so anything is possible, and “while that is so, give it a go”.
                    Last edited by Saxon Warrior; 23 January 2021, 06:55 PM.
                    "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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                    • Don't forget that Haydock does have a tendency to make winners look like world beaters from time to time. He looked great today but the main opposition swerved the race and the next best fell. He essentially beat nothing very, very impressively. His rating will be ludicrous no doubt - probably in the Bristol De Mai ballpark - a horse who was continually overrated after trotting up around here. Every year BDM would go to Haydock a 33/1 shot for the Gold Cup, piss in and be cut to 8/1.
                      That said, i hope he goes for Gold because it will liven up the race no end. Ask yourself this - leaving aside any bias a 20/1 ticket for the NH Chase might create - if he was yours and had just won the Peter Marsh like that, where would you want to run next?

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                      • Originally posted by delsie777 View Post
                        Ask yourself this - leaving aside any bias a 20/1 ticket for the NH Chase might create - if he was yours and had just won the Peter Marsh like that, where would you want to run next?
                        Gold Cup 100%.

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                        • Originally posted by delsie777 View Post
                          That said, i hope he goes for Gold because it will liven up the race no end. Ask yourself this - leaving aside any bias a 20/1 ticket for the NH Chase might create - if he was yours and had just won the Peter Marsh like that, where would you want to run next?
                          Absolutely the Gold Cup, Rich Ricci hasn’t won the race yet.

                          You’re dead right that Haydock makes some wide margin winners look like world beaters, but until we know how good RP is, then how many other British horses are going to line up in the Gold Cup with both:

                          * better official ratings, and
                          * a better current performance trajectory?

                          None? One?
                          "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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                          • Originally posted by delsie777 View Post
                            Ask yourself this - leaving aside any bias a 20/1 ticket for the NH Chase might create - if he was yours and had just won the Peter Marsh like that, where would you want to run next?
                            I'd do a hell of a lot for a Cheltenham Festival winner, so whichever was the easiest race. On that premise, the NH Chase, followed by the RSA, followed by the Gold Cup.

                            Given he's only 7 as well, it just makes sense to me. They could potentially bottom him out in a Gold Cup. Despite the distance difference I think is much more a test than the NH Chase because of the end to end gallop it's usually run at.

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                            • Originally posted by delsie777 View Post
                              Don't forget that Haydock does have a tendency to make winners look like world beaters from time to time. He looked great today but the main opposition swerved the race and the next best fell. He essentially beat nothing very, very impressively. His rating will be ludicrous no doubt - probably in the Bristol De Mai ballpark - a horse who was continually overrated after trotting up around here. Every year BDM would go to Haydock a 33/1 shot for the Gold Cup, piss in and be cut to 8/1.
                              That said, i hope he goes for Gold because it will liven up the race no end. Ask yourself this - leaving aside any bias a 20/1 ticket for the NH Chase might create - if he was yours and had just won the Peter Marsh like that, where would you want to run next?
                              I agree on Haydock. I think the difference with him is this is the second such performance and he probably hasn't been given the credit for the kempton one.

                              based on an entry for the gold cup before this race it must have been in their minds he could be this good and the performance today didnt give us any idea what his limit was

                              he's a hugely exciting addition and hope we see him in GC

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                              • Originally posted by fatherjohn View Post

                                based on an entry for the gold cup before this race it must have been in their minds he could be this good and the performance today didnt give us any idea what his limit was

                                he's a hugely exciting addition and hope we see him in GC
                                I think they’ll go Gold Cup - you got that vibe when they interviewed her - look at what she said:

                                Venetia

                                “I can’t say he will definitely go for the Gold Cup, and there will be much discussion before any decisions are reached.”

                                Trainers always name check the race they are thinking of - they can’t help it.

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