2022 Stayers Hurdle

[charlie]

No. Good try, but not budging. He's not a Cheltenham winner. Good horse, but.....

Just presenting fact. He's finished too well up finishes with stiff hills not to have dispelled 'flat track bully' theories. As for 'he's not a Cheltenham winner', do I need to list all the stayers winners the won the race without having previously won at Cheltenham? We can agree to disagree because I'm busy today and don't what to have to take you to school again

[Fouroverthrutwo]

Now to a proven stayer:

"Flooring Porter will reappear in the Lismullen Hurdle at Navan on November 7th with trainer Gavin Cromwell indicating that this year's Stayers Hurdle winner will be kept to left-handed racecourses."

Taken from Irish Racing this morning.

[The Fellow]

Now to a proven stayer:

"Flooring Porter will reappear in the Lismullen Hurdle at Navan on November 7th with trainer Gavin Cromwell indicating that this year's Stayers Hurdle winner will be kept to left-handed racecourses."

Taken from Irish Racing this morning.

Flooring Porter will reappear in the Lismullen Hurdle at Navan on November 7th with trainer Gavin Cromwell indicating that this year's Stayers Hurdle winner will be kept to left-handed racecourses.

Flooring Porter graduated from 95-rated handicapper to be a Grade 1 winner at the Cheltenham festival in March and while pulled up on his last run at the Punchestown festival, Cromwell reports “Flooring Porter will go to the Lismullen Hurdle, then we'll probably look at Leopardstown over Christmas.

“It was the prelims really (at Punchestown), he got very worked up before the race and he's just not as effective going right-handed.

“We won't go right-handed with him this season and the plan would be Navan, Leopardstown and Cheltenham.”

[Lobos]

Just presenting fact. He's finished too well up finishes with stiff hills not to have dispelled 'flat track bully' theories. As for 'he's not a Cheltenham winner', do I need to list all the stayers winners the won the race without having previously won at Cheltenham? We can agree to disagree because I'm busy today and don't what to have to take you to school again

Happy to leave it there. Hated school.

[Lobos]

Flooring Porter at 10/1 simply has to be the best value returning Champion out there doesn't he ?

[charlie]

Happy to leave it there. Hated school.

Agree to disagree, it's a wonderful mantra

[Istabraq]

Flooring Porter at 10/1 simply has to be the best value returning Champion out there doesn't he ?

Put the Kettle On 14/1 ?
FP needs to bounce back after Punchestown but he should do, not sure 10/1 offers huge value but there are plenty of worse bets out there…

[charlie]

Put the Kettle On 14/1 ?
FP needs to bounce back after Punchestown but he should do, not sure 10/1 offers huge value but there are plenty of worse bets out there…

Opposition the achilles heal of a PTKO bet no? I'd argue FP has slightly less on his plate with what's coming through in the stayers division than PTKO has with 2 milers - now I actually type that I'm questioning myself as to how true that is. PTKO held on but it wouldn't be a shock to see CPS or NN reverse that form, and thats before you factor in Shishkin and Energumene. I thought Flooring Porter was exceptional and beat off a decent irish challenge with authority. The 4pt price difference makes it interesting. Really is an open to interpretation one. I suppose the argument re QMCC is usually far less runners, so thats a variable worth mentioning

[Lobos]

Yep, Kettles an incredible price and still think she's a great Ew bet but agree, opposition to her looks stronger still this time around. The two of them as an Ew double is the best bet I've placed this year.

[Istabraq]

Opposition the achilles heal of a PTKO bet no? I'd argue FP has slightly less on his plate with what's coming through in the stayers division than PTKO has with 2 milers - now I actually type that I'm questioning myself as to how true that is. PTKO held on but it wouldn't be a shock to see CPS or NN reverse that form, and thats before you factor in Shishkin and Energumene. I thought Flooring Porter was exceptional and beat off a decent irish challenge with authority. The 4pt price difference makes it interesting. Really is an open to interpretation one. I suppose the argument re QMCC is usually far less runners, so thats a variable worth mentioning

Yep, couldn't disagree or challenge any of that, except what goes through your mind whilst typing...

[charlie]

Yep, couldn't disagree or challenge any of that, except what goes through your mind whilst typing...

So much goes through my mind when typing - or at least I like to think it does!!

I explore a broad spectrum of emotions when typing responses to Lobos - most of them are happy tho, so its all good

[Lobos]

Good to hear Charlie. Me too. Good to see thought provoking posts on here as it gets one thinking a bit more about different angles and stops us all getting lazy with our punting and just following the markets or talking about what happened last season and worst of all the 'Mullins will always go for the easy option' statement which for some reason bugs me big time as I don't totally agree with that either

[Spectre]

I know Lobos and Charlie agreed to disagree but I didn't.

Sizing John chased every backside over two and two and half, but when he was stepped up to three he won a Gold Cup. On the basis that Aba is regarded as substandard, Sizing John would have been pigeonholed in the same way.

The point here is the view that some of us take that Aba would improve further for the step up and he may be able to bridge what is very small ratings gap with current Champion because of the extra distance.

Flooring Porter incidentally would have been regarded by some as a selling plater at this stage last season.

[Quevega]

I know Lobos and Charlie agreed to disagree but I didn't.

Sizing John chased every backside over two and two and half, but when he was stepped up to three he won a Gold Cup. On the basis that Aba is regarded as substandard, Sizing John would have been pigeonholed in the same way.

The point here is the view that some of us take that Aba would improve further for the step up and he may be able to bridge what is very small ratings gap with current Champion because of the extra distance.

Flooring Porter incidentally would have been regarded by some as a selling plater at this stage last season.

Good comparison, as Sizing John probably needed a few things in his favour at 3 miles, and Abacadabras will also.
But 33-1 is a good price to find out.

[charlie]

The point here is the view that some of us take that Aba would improve further for the step up and he may be able to bridge what is very small ratings gap with current Champion because of the extra distance.

A cracking and important point, not just re ABA, but more widely across all Cheltenham winners. All winners emerge from somewhere - some are obvious and short prices from the start of the season (eg Monkfish last year in the RSA), but the vast majority are not, not at all. This time last year you could get (I'm going by memory here) 16/1 about PTKO for the QMCC, 20/1 for Honeysuckle to win the Champion, 20/1 Galvin NHC, 14/1 Appreciate It to win the Supreme, Flooring Porter was at least 33/1, so was Telmesomethingirl etc. The list goes on and on and on. Obviously, hindsight is lovely and finding winners is tough, but for every short priced obvious winner like Shishkin there are loads more 'that come from nowhere', and we obviously spend considerable time trying to decipher the road to nowhere