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2022 Championship Division

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  • I wasn't sure where to post my thoughts on this, but I suppose the Mares Hurdle is a championship race of sorts?

    With the defection of Black Tears to the breeding sheds, I thought this race was worth spending some time on, and I've come to the conclusion that the mares novice division last year was pretty ordinary apart from two horses that didn't contest the Mares Novice Hurdle at the Festival, Echoes In Rain and Shewearsitwell. I think both would put Telmesomethinggirl away withe ease, and on RP ratings they have 3 or 4 pounds in hand before being stretched. They also have similar ratings to Concertista at the same stage in their careers.

    There are horses with increased potential stepping up to two and a half miles, whereas as others mares novice hurdlers look best suited to sticking to two miles. On that basis I'm already convinced that Echoes In Rain will stick at 2 miles and contest the Champion Hurdle and I'll count her out for the purposes of this.

    On the other hand Henry was keen to step Mares Novice Hurdle winner Telmesmethinggirl up to three miles in open company against the boys at Punchestown, so he clearly sees her as needing a trip. I do too, and have her in the Roksana mould and think she won't have enough speed to win a Mares Hurdle, and her best chance may be a 7lb concession in open company. The bare form of her Mares Novice Hurdle win is a few pounds behind Concertista's win the previous year, so she also has more to find than I'd like to get to where Concertista is currently. She was a decent winner against the field she faced, but the horses that were 2nd to 5th home and their respective form prior to the race suggests it was a pretty ordinary renewal. Priced as joint favourite for the Mares Hurdle with some bookies alongside Concertista means that, other than for the purposes of making a book, she's not for me at the price.

    Second in the Mares Novice, Magic Daze, looks like one that may be better sticking to two miles. Breeding certainly suggests so, and anyway she doesn't look good enough. Third home Mighty Blue is still a novice, and remains interesting for the Mares Novice Hurdle next March, particularly with so much experience under her belt. She'll need a break though as they are still keeping her busy on the flat where she still appears to be improving. Given she's on a handy looking mark, they may try and exploit her hurdles mark in a big handicap somewhere along the way.

    There were no obvious excuses for those further down the field, but there are a handful that remain of interest stepped up in trip. Gauloise was a talking horse last season, but was disappointing when it mattered. She does look likely to improve for further, and could come into the reckoning. Despite being much better stepping up in trip at Fairyhouse, she doesn't look obvious value though, and would be Mullins third string for the race at best if the race was run now. She's a watching brief with an open mind I think. The Glancing Queen looks sure to benefit for a step up in trip. King was toying with the idea of running in open company over two and half, and in hindsight rather than stick to the shorter trip, he probably wished he'd taken on Black Tears and Concertista instead. The initial 66/1 and 50/1 has gone already, and she been backed into 33's. But she remains interesting even at that price. Glens Of Antrim remains a novice just like Mighty Blue, and is a must for any Mares Novice Hurdle book. She needs to learn to jump though. But in that respect reminds me very much of Concertista as a second season novice hurdler. She's not one for this race. Finally Royal Kahala isn't without a chance over two and half miles. She needs it, but she also needs to get her toe in, and you'd want soft ground on the first day to be backing her then. That said she'll get plenty of that over the winter, and 25/1 will definitely shorten. She'll knock over a few well fancied horses on winter ground on her way, and will possibly offer a bit of value against horses from the bigger stables.

    One that didnt make the Festival, Santa Rossa. is currently 66/1 with some fabulous form in the book, but she lacks experience and it's all about potential with her. They'll need to get on with things and get races under her belt. She's been a bit fragile. Nothing major, just minor hold ups, so you'd want to see a couple of promising runs this side of the new year., and importantly stringing a few races together For me she's not particularly risky to have onside though. If I haven't seen her by late November I can just cash out.

    I'm not sure any of those discussed scream out winner though. I think the winner will come from one of two horses, and surprise surprise, they're both with Willie. The first is Shewearsitwell. Due to contest the Royal Bond last season before injury, the word on the street suggested that they regarded her as a Supreme Horse, which marks her out as a cut above the average novice mare even by Willie's standards. She was obviously showing them a lot at home. She does come with a simiar health warning to Santa Rossa though, in that she has an injury to overcome, and is very inexperienced. Again she'll need to be out getting experience fairly early on. On bare form though she's exciting. 14's is easy to take given she has to get a couple of early runs in and will either plummet or will be a cashout job.

    Finally I come back to Concertista. A lot has been written about her being disappointing, including on here. I disagree though. The result was disappointing, but she wasn't. She made a mistake at the last which cost her victory on the line. Run the race again without the mistake and she'd be going back in March to defend her title and would be half the price she is now. I'm happy to write off Punchestown where it obviously wasn't her true form, and she was clearly over the top. At 8/1 I'm recommending here as the best value in the current market. The bookies haven't reacted yet to Black Tears being retired, and 8/1 looks much too big for a horse that think should be clear favourite, with only a very inexperienced stablemate who is coming off the back of an injury that seems to have the potential to trouble her. Next March she'll be less than half her current price, and probably shorter than that.

    The good thing about this division antepost is that there are rarely any surprises, and the first three home are almost certainly priced up in the current market, so it's a good race to play early. Anyway, in summary tjhis is the way I currently see it:

    For the win:

    Concertista 8/1 (backed 17/1 and 8/1)
    Shewearsitwell 14/1 (backed 22/1 and 14/1)

    Mid-market:
    No current value

    Longshots:

    Royal Kahala 25/1
    The Glancing Queen 33/1 (backed 66/1)
    Santa Rossa 66/1
    Last edited by Spectre; 29 June 2021, 02:09 PM.
    Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Spectre View Post
      I wasn't sure where to post my thoughts on this, but I suppose the Mares Hurdle is a championship race of sorts
      I couldn’t bring myself to creating a dedicated Mares thread for such a quiet time of debate, these threads are created on an interim basis until race threads appear as the season gets going but feel free to create a new thread for any race not currently covered as there are a few.

      Interesting thoughts on Tellmesomethinggirl, I was quite taken with her win in what I think will prove to be an above average renewal and think the 20f at Cheltenham will be ideal…

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Istabraq View Post
        Interesting thoughts on Tellmesomethinggirl, I was quite taken with her win in what I think will prove to be an above average renewal and think the 20f at Cheltenham will be ideal…
        I suspect more will take your position than mine Istabraq. It's the first logical place to look for the following season's Mares Hurdle. There were no Quevega's or Benie Des Dieux's amongst any of the mares that were at the Festival last season, and from what I've seen so far I'd have Concertista at the top of the list of those that were.

        As I said I think Echoes In Rain (Champion Hurdle), and Shewearsitwell (on potential), could be the mares that go to the top of the tree next season. But for the mares hurdle Shewearsitwell has to prove it, and for the moment Concertista still sets the bar in my opinion.
        Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.

        Comment


        • For what's its worth I believe Concertista heads to the Churdle...end of. For me , 2 1/2 miles is a race too far for her as proved last season. Echoes in the Rain may head that way too. Shewearsitwell for me me could go either the Churdle or Mares route depending on what EIR does. As for Telmesomethinggirl....imo the Mares Hurdle is her end route. Therefore, for me, she is the best bet in that race as it stands. What do I know though ???!!!
          Last edited by Lobos; 29 June 2021, 08:32 PM.

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          • The Mares is still very open at this stage. For all that Shewearsitwell was very impressive early in the season, she wasn't really tested in the heat of battle. Also, for what was supposed to be a minor (and unspecified) injury, she was out for a long time and, although she's been pictured on the gallops recently, I couldn't be backing her until she's declared to run somewhere.

            Concertista still sets the standard and Telmesomethinggirl brings the most notable novice form. Two to keep an eye on would be Stormy Ireland and Skyace.
            Last edited by archie; 30 June 2021, 09:38 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by archie View Post
              Two to keep an eye on would be Stormy Ireland and Skyace.
              The mares novices third, Mighty Blue, is one to keep an eye on as well, hacked up in a listed flat race earning a rating of 108 and well back in second that day was HDB's Lismore who I watched rout a Group 3 field at Sandown a few weeks back.
              She doesn't look the most consistent of mares and it can't be assumed she will return to timber next season but she could be one of the more likely wild cards, also she is still a novice so could well tackle the same race again...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by archie View Post
                The Mares is still very open at this stage. For all that Shewearsitwell was very impressive early in the season, she wasn't really tested in the heat of battle. Also, for what was supposed to be a minor (and unspecified) injury, she was out for a long time and, although she's been pictured on the gallops recently, I couldn't be backing her until she's declared to run somewhere.

                Concertista still sets the standard and Telmesomethinggirl brings the most notable novice form. Two to keep an eye on would be Stormy Ireland and Skyace.
                You just might have to take very short odds for her if you wait to long

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Trap5 View Post

                  You just might have to take very short odds for her if you wait to long
                  Agree. You do get the impression that Willie really rates her. She could be his next Benie/Annie.

                  Comment


                  • She's one that I feel you have to have onside early. As has just been said, one good run and her price crashes. 14's is fine, but would you want to back her at 4's? I wouldn't. She's one for before she gets talked up in all the reviews and publications when she'll be clipped 4 points, and then half in price when she wins first time out.

                    The alternative is to leave her alone and hope that all the noises out of Closutton for the last year are hype. I think she's shown enough on the racecourse to suggest they're not, and the Royal Bond entry and talked about being last seasons Supreme horse is impossible to ignore.

                    Not having her onside if she makes a winning start this season, will make the race very difficult to get involved in I'd suggest.
                    Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.

                    Comment


                    • She's already as short as 8's with Hills

                      Comment


                      • For you guys who make a complete book, 14/1 is maybe adequate if not wildly generous. Note though that none of the horses that Shewearsitwell has beaten has gone on to frank the form and she hasn't raced on winter ground. Not for me as it stands.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Istabraq View Post

                          The mares novices third, Mighty Blue, is one to keep an eye on as well, hacked up in a listed flat race earning a rating of 108 and well back in second that day was HDB's Lismore who I watched rout a Group 3 field at Sandown a few weeks back.
                          She doesn't look the most consistent of mares and it can't be assumed she will return to timber next season but she could be one of the more likely wild cards, also she is still a novice so could well tackle the same race again...
                          With a flat rating of 108, and an average looking Mares NH campaign last year, she could finish the flat season she's in at the moment and go to the breeding shed.
                          "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Spectre View Post
                            She's one that I feel you have to have onside early. As has just been said, one good run and her price crashes. 14's is fine, but would you want to back her at 4's? I wouldn't. She's one for before she gets talked up in all the reviews and publications when she'll be clipped 4 points, and then half in price when she wins first time out.

                            The alternative is to leave her alone and hope that all the noises out of Closutton for the last year are hype. I think she's shown enough on the racecourse to suggest they're not, and the Royal Bond entry and talked about being last seasons Supreme horse is impossible to ignore.

                            Not having her onside if she makes a winning start this season, will make the race very difficult to get involved in I'd suggest.
                            Agreed Spectre.

                            If you like the races and ratings she got last autumn and the vibes that she was special and could beat in geldings in grade 1's then you really have to take the 14's, with cashout.

                            If you don't, then you don't.


                            I don't tend to back anything injured in Wliile Mullins stable as they can't be trusted to keep the public properly informed - let's face it they say bugger all until they're forced to, by Twitter or by missing racing entries.

                            I've said plenty on that subject in the recent past and I will never change my mind.

                            The stable PR on injuries is "backward" "self-serving" and does themselves and the sport no favours at all.
                            - But the guys at the top there, all seem to have the same view, that the public should be kept in the dark, on injuries, whilst earning money from media roles/weekly updates, without mentioning injured horses progress, and they're not going to change.

                            The reason I've backed SWIW is that, to my eye, she was probably was/is 10lb better than what the MNH at Cheltenham dished up, and so a return to that puts her at the top of the Mares Hurdle market.

                            ​​​​​​​Its been known for a while she gas been back in work and ever now seen clips of a gallop, so I'm taking a flyer and going against my normal rules on that stable and backing an injured horse before she gets an entry.


                            Concertista though impressive last season, never got Willie so excited, or willing to take on the boys, so I am happy to leave her alone for now.




                            "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Saxon Warrior View Post

                              With a flat rating of 108, and an average looking Mares NH campaign last year, she could finish the flat season she's in at the moment and go to the breeding shed.
                              Of course, but I wonder why they would have tried a NH campaign if that was in their thoughts and she ran against all the top mares (novices) in that campaign.
                              She has been on the go for a long time with 15 runs in the last twelve months and she's certainly due a break, maybe the breeding shed is that break as you suggest...

                              Comment


                              • SWIW fortunately is syndicate owned, so it increases the likelihood of getting news of any issues quickly, unless Willie keeps information from the syndicate which would be unlikely.
                                Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.

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