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Stupid Questions

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  • #16
    Heres a stupid one incoming

    So me and my mate were discussing Shattered Love tomorrow and I'm saying SHE (thanks charlie) is rated 21lb lower over hurdles than his chase rating.

    Question on ratings - is there a direct upgrade in ratings from hurdles to chase? Similar to the flat to jumps is usually around 40 difference. A friend thinks there is a difference but I said there wasn't?
    Last edited by darlojim; 4 December 2020, 07:25 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by darlojim View Post
      Heres a stupid one incoming

      So me and my mate were discussing Shattered Love tomorrow and I'm saying he is rated 21lb lower over hurdles than his chase rating.

      Question on ratings - is there a direct upgrade in ratings from hurdles to chase? Similar to the flat to jumps is usually around 40 difference. A friend thinks there is a difference but I said there wasn't?
      The stupidest part of this post is 'he'

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      • #18
        Originally posted by charlie View Post

        The stupidest part of this post is 'he'
        oh fuck

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        • #19
          Originally posted by charlie View Post

          The stupidest part of this post is 'he'
          Was about to post the exact same thing haha!

          Last edited by ComplyOrDie; 4 December 2020, 07:28 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by darlojim View Post

            oh fuck
            Don't worry, that will go down in 'stupid queastions' folk law pal! Like me on 'The Favourites Bin' thread not being able to count to two

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            • #21
              In answer to your actual question darlojim , no I don't believe there is an immediate upgrade from hurdles to chasing. I think a horses mark over hurdles is the starting point for the handicapper to judge them on over fences though, then from there on out it's mostly performances and collateral form that dictates it.

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              • #22
                But,.......when/if Shattered Love comes to the UK they will assess her independently of her Irish ratings, and if she raced in a handicap hurdle race in the UK the handicapper over here would look at her recent Chase form too, and provide a rating that they think she will run to in the UK.

                In Ireland SL’s ratings are

                Chase 152
                Hurdle 136

                She only just ran the Chase rating in her last race, (it was increased 2lb from 150 I think)

                The UK handicapper would look at that and even if entered in a Handicap Hurdle race in the UK they would most likely give her a Hurdle rating very close to her Irish Chase rating.

                "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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                • #23
                  In the UK they start from their hurdles mark. In Ireland they start from scratch.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Joleg View Post

                    In this instance would they be using an 'OR' or a 'RPR' ?
                    Always the OR

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                    • #25
                      1. Many horses sold at the big 3yo store sales in Ireland are bought by those who specialise in getting them to the track as a 4yo and selling them on for profit. The Doyles (Monbeg) and Colin Bowe are leaders in this field. They run them in PtPs because it's less competitive and, I think in the case of the Doyles, they don't have a licence to train under rules. These guys are specifically looking for 3yos that will run as 4yos and can go on to run under rules at 4 or 5. Most rules trainers will prefer to start from scratch and will ignore the PtP runs, often preferring a bumper run to start from the proverbial clean sheet.

                      2. As stated, the only official rating is OR. All ratings are subjective and many professionals have their own set of ratings rather than rely on others' opinions. RPR and Timeform are usually only rolled out when they agree with the view of the poster. At the end of the (NH) season, the UK and Irish handicappers get together and agree a shared mark for horses over a certain rating (150?).

                      3. By and large, hurdles and chasing ORs are entirely separate. Sometimes a horse has run in a handicap chase before it has had sufficient runs over fences to earn a chase mark although I believe that this is at the discretion of the handicapper. When this is allowed, the hurdles mark is usually used unless there is compelling evidence to suggest otherwise. As time moves on, a chaser can increase his mark over fences but his hurdles mark may stay the same. As long as the period of time isn't excessive, it's quite possible that a 145 chaser can revert to hurdles off 125 if that was his last hurdles mark. I'm fairly sure that the UK and Irish handicappers have a different qualification period for this and it caused some consternation on here last Cheltenham. The Storyteller?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TigerRolllllll View Post

                        The OR is what sets the weight for handicaps......official rating

                        RPR are ratings net of weight.....so for example if a horse ran last time to 160 RPR and another ran to 164.....but now both of the same weight.....if they both run to the same rating as last time the 164 should win

                        Just to claify though on the above in case it isn't clear, the OR and RPR are indepedant of each other.

                        Racing Post Ratings aren't impacted by Official Ratings, and vica versa.

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                        • #27
                          I still don't really understand what a stores horse is so if anyone could explain it'd be genuinely appreciated! In my head its just horses that have been bought, unnamed but kept in training and just sort of in limbo til they decide what to do with them.

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                          • #28
                            Some great stuff on here

                            Thank you all for your answers,

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                            • #29
                              As far as I know a store horse is a young horse that has not raced yet. Buyers at the upper market would be looking for NH pedigree. Other posters would know but i guess these horses would of gone for lower sums decades ago, but now are going for silly money.

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                              • #30
                                I remember the UK handicapper coming out pre-Aintree weights were announced this year & he explained that his team keep their own ratings for horses running in Ireland

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