Champion Chase 2018

[ComplyOrDie]

Oosh yeh, very big statement. Ruby said Min would need to have improved over the summer to be considered as a top 2 miler... I can't have that being true at all.

I was debating with jono about this and think I'll be in the minority, but my big shout is the UDS would beat Min over 2m!

Ruby say's a lot of things, he also said he reminds him of Kauto Star, as someone said earlier in the thread So I'll take his word with a pinch of salt.

Do you think UDS would push Altior? For me Altior does his best work at the finish, or least it seemed that way in the Arkle this year, if that's the case, and I believe it is, then Cheltenham should be perfect for him with the uphill finish, however Min has a brilliant turn of foot, more so, for some reason, it seems over fences than over hurdles, and it's that turn of foot for me that I think will see Altior struggle to peg back, should they actually meet of course!

[Kevloaf]

I read that UDS and Altior are due to meet in the tingle creek ... so we'll find out hopefully. I do think UDS will be the toughest test that Altior will have faced, and it may give Altior the chance to put in an almighty performance. If he can pick up UDS and pull clear that'll impress me more than any of his other wins. (Not that he needs to)

If we go off what ruby has said, 1. He's like Kauto. 2. He's not a top 2 miler .... then you can ignore both haha. I'll go off my own thoughts that he was a notch below Altior, and he won't be bridging that gap. That doesn't mean he can't win races and he may be very good .... but he's not going to win any race at Cheltenham without a better horse underperforming in my opinion

[ComplyOrDie]

Fair enough Kev, I'm of a differing opinion, but that's the great thing about this game, the opinions.

Looking forward to UDS vs Altior if it does go ahead, though does give WPM a line to against Altior for both Min & Douvan, despite having a different owner.

[Kevloaf]

Fair enough Kev, I'm of a differing opinion, but that's the great thing about this game, the opinions.

Looking forward to UDS vs Altior if it does go ahead, though does give WPM a line to against Altior for both Min & Douvan, despite having a different owner.

I'd think they'll be able to use that running to know where they stand with Douvan. My personal hunch is that, if they feel Douvan would have a favourites chance against Altior, he'll run.... if they DON'T, they'll say Min is improving, can "put it up to Altior".... send Douvan over further (maybe even pick up the Ryanair!) and win that race with Douvan, leaving Min to be 'put away' by Altior again. Altior improved as a chaser for me, and already had 7L on Min... so Min would need to have improved as a chaser (which he looks like he had AND then make up 7L)....

Soft ground for the Tingle Creek would be perfect to test Altior/UDS!

[ComplyOrDie]

Thought I'd give this a little bump.

It's not that I don't respect the horse or the trainer but I am definitely going against Altior this festival.

My reasoning, well, I don't think anyone is under any illusions that this would be his toughest test to date should one of Douvan or Min turn up against him, then you also have Great Field in there too, I'm hoping it's Min & Great Field that take him on to be honest, both of which are massively lightly raced in comparison to Altior, and are arguably open to more improvement than him.

I've re-watched the Arkle and can't help but feel Altior would have been in trouble against any horse that had a turn of foot and gone on sooner, but such was the massive lack in opposition he only had to be OK to win the Arkle this year, if the same Altior turns up in that form of this years Arkle then I honestly can not see him winning. His current price is damn awful.

I will lay him nearer the time, after he's swooped by some inadequate opposition no doubt and becomes a whole lot shorter, then possible back in running and he's never one to get going quickly from what I've seen!

[Garrison Savannah]

Wouldn't disagree with any of that - I'm still not convinced Altior had Charbel beat and would love to have seen what would have happened bar the fall at the final flight.

[Hurricane fly]

Stuart Riley summed up my feelings perfectly

Stuart Riley One bad run, when something was clearly amiss, and everyone seems to have forgotten how wondrously talented Douvan is. The horse he used to beat for fun is now the Gold Cup hero and I'm sure he'd put Altior in his place if they met.

[jono]

Stuart Riley summed up my feelings perfectly

I disregarded most of Stuart Riley's thoughts once I read his views on Our Duke in that he "Can't jump for toffee" and that he could revert back to hurdles this year

In all seriousness that view on Douvan is true, a ridiculous overeaction to his Champion Chase defeat and anyone using that run against the horse is mad. That said to say he would "put Altior in his place" is just as big of an exaggeration imo.

On a pure match between the pair I am finding it very hard to split the pair and think there is little between the 2. I'm not sure what Douvan did better than Altior or how he has proved more so far in their careers to date?? I'd say Altior has achieved slightly more?

[Hurricane fly]

I'd rate a Douvan regularly having Sizing John and Fox Norton 7+ lengths down higher than Altiors beating of Special Tiara but that's an each to their own matter

[somer1]

Wouldn't disagree with any of that - I'm still not convinced Altior had Charbel beat and would love to have seen what would have happened bar the fall at the final flight.

I was on Charbel that day and thought it was running hell of a race till it came down.Bet Nicky Henderson had his heart in his mouth

[Faugheen_Machine]

At the time I thought Charbel would have pushed Altior. Having watched it back several times I'm certain Altior would have won, and won well.

Douvan did look unbeatable until his injury so it will be interesting to see how he runs on his comeback.

[jono]

I'd rate a Douvan regularly having Sizing John and Fox Norton 7+ lengths down higher than Altiors beating of Special Tiara but that's an each to their own matter

I think Fox Norton came on leaps and bounds from that debut chase season (you only have to look at him having a run at the Cheltenham Aintree meeting to show where his level was at the time) so it wasn't like he was beating last seasons Fox Norton. And Sizing John's form since going onto race over 3 miles has to be taken with a slight pinch of salt for me (as much as I think Douvan would likely beat SJ over any trip if he was to go up in trip).

That's not to play down what Douvan was doing. Both him and Altior have shown they are so far clear of anyone else. My take is that Altior going into Open company twice in his novice year and winning so convincingly in both races can be counted as worth more than what Douvan did, that's not to say an injury-free Douvan wouldn't have done exactly the same or better though.

[Jimmy MacJambo]

National Hunt Racing just retweeted

Been told there could be some bad news about Douvan soon

Please Not Douvan !!!!

[ComplyOrDie]

National Hunt Racing just retweeted

Been told there could be some bad news about Douvan soon

Please Not Douvan !!!!

Just seen this. Slight drift on the exchanges currently, nothing drastic yet.

[ryanh97]

National Hunt Racing just retweeted

Been told there could be some bad news about Douvan soon

Please Not Douvan !!!!

'All is not well' apparently