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End of season official ratings

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  • End of season official ratings

    Fox Norton the best middle distance Chaser on 169. Un De Sceaux 168? Not having that.

    ALTIOR 170 (Sprinter Sacre 169) come on? In fairness they've said sprinter should have been given a higher novice rating but it seems like these ratings are becoming a little false imo. It's almost like the ratings HAVE to be higher due to demand.

    Its a little like football, when the media seem determined to make every season, week, game the biggest and best ever

  • #2
    I must admit I'm OK with the Altior rating, he has always had the look of a special horse to me and having him higher than SS when compared as novice chasers is fair in my opinion, though obviously there's very little between them.

    I've been away and not read the full story but wasn't Many Clouds rated highest staying chaser ?

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    • #3
      The Many Clouds rating is laughable and Oliver's Sherwoods reaction summed it up! Sizing John should have won horse of the year but I can kind get by with Many Clouds winning that in the wake of him passing and the fact he did give us one of the races of the year but after SJ won once again at Punchestown how he isn't the highest rated staying chaser is a mystery. It means nothing really of course but it's just another obscene rating that does make you question the system and people behind them.

      Altior - I'd be happy with the 170. Sprinters novice chase rating was clearly underrated at the time so it's hard to draw too much to those comparisons (even though I think they should be close) but Douvan was rated 169 just last year for his and I think most would be in agreement that Altior achieved more in his novice year than Douvan did? (We can't really use Sizing Johns 3m+ exploits this year) Plus when you see Special Tiara and Gods Own at 166 and 167 it's hard to say Altior should be rated down isn't it?

      Generally I'd agree though in that ratings are being exaggerated year on year it seems. They almost need to redo the whole ratings really

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      • #4
        I think they should be able to go back and alter them historic ratings really. Although I am sure that'd cause its own problems... the facts are that horses are all getting better. and faster as a species means naturally ratings should be going up on average I guess over time.

        I guess in sports, however good Pele was in the 60s. based on athletisism and all that, if he was frozen in time back then and released now he wouldn't be strong or fast enough to play in any top leagues .... (impossible to gauge but should make the point)

        All academic really... I always try and not get lured in by a horses rating but fear it is one of the areas I make the biggest mistake. "Horse X has 7 lbs in hand over its rivals" is a comment that I pay more heed to than I perhaps should?

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        • #5
          The debate over Arkle's rating will rage on forever, 212 making him 20lb-30lb better than the likes of Dessie, Sprinter Sacre and Moscow Flyer is scandelous, but as you say they've shown no appetite to review historic ratings nor have they accepted that early ratings were wrong...

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          • #6
            Arkle wouldn't have beaten Sizing John this year in the Gold Cup... ratings only work because they are reletive so there should really be a 'cap' after a period of time. Problem being that some horses would overlap these boundries...

            I didn't realise Arkle was rated 212. That is hilarious. I just assumed he was about 190

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            • #7
              Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Chasers)
              212 Arkle
              210 Flyingbolt
              192p Sprinter Sacre
              191 Kauto Star, Mill House
              187 Desert Orchid
              186 Dunkirk
              184 Burrough Hill Lad, Moscow Flyer, Long Run
              183 Denman, Don Cossack, Master Oats
              182 Azertyuiop, Best Mate, Captain Christy, Carvill's Hill, Kicking King, See More Business, Well Chief




              Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Hurdlers)
              182 Night Nurse
              180 Istabraq, Monksfield
              179 Persian War
              178 Comedy of Errors, Le Sauvignon
              177 Lanzarote, Limestone Lad
              176 Bird's Nest, Bula, Faugheen, Golden Cygnet
              175 Baracouda, Gaye Brief, Salmon Spray, Sea Pigeon

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              • #8
                That's just farcical isn't it.

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                • #9
                  Must be a generational thing.

                  I'm sorry, Kev, but the statement that Sizing John would have beaten Arkle is nigh on a red card offence. It's all about opinions but Arkle would surely have won in a hack canter. His rating is actually fairly accurate as he proved in handicaps. I do though think it's strange that Sizing John isn't top rated staying chaser.

                  You're also wrong about Pele.
                  Last edited by archie; 27 May 2017, 05:12 PM.

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