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  1. #11
    Senior Member Istabraq's Avatar
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    You have to consider ground too.
    Generally bottomless in Ireland from now to Cheltenham so ex flat types who like quick ground either won't be seen or certainly not seen at their best, and every chance they're kept ticking over at home rather than flogged in bogs on a racecourse....

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istabraq View Post
    You have to consider ground too.
    Generally bottomless in Ireland from now to Cheltenham so ex flat types who like quick ground either won't be seen or certainly not seen at their best, and every chance they're kept ticking over at home rather than flogged in bogs on a racecourse....
    Winter juvenile races are for the Fred Winter plots

  3. #13
    Senior Member Istabraq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieMoon33 View Post
    Winter juvenile races are for the Fred Winter plots
    Very true JackieMoon, very true

  4. #14
    Senior Member Kevloaf's Avatar
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    Top price of 10s now for Landofhopeandglory ... this could become a Joseph benefit over the years like the mares race seems to be for Mullins.

    Going to be really hard for yards to compete with what is happening here? Not sure which trainers target the race, Alan King possibly? Nicholls? ... Runners I'm sure but Nicholls certainly is aiming for the future no matter what happens...

    Bhutan and Sword Fighter I am interested in seeing out...

  5. #15
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    I think it's quite interesting he is still 10/1.. I would of thought with all the hype he would be shorter, maybe there is a couple of good ones in Joseph's yard that connections think more of.. Remember Ivan gorbatov last year, was 3/1 after his debut

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kevloaf's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be amazed if Sword Fighter or Bhutan usurp Landofhopeandglory by festival time...

    A good friend of mine text me today saying he has had a wedge on landofhopeandglory because "it'll be just like IG" but I don't see it.... if the Triumph was tomorrow, then sure, you'd back him... but we have 3 months to go and I feel like something will improve past him (that hasn't been out yet)....



    For the Fred Winter, isn't it going to be obvious as soon as a horse is entered that it is a plot job.... I can see a JP horse going off near evens for that haha

  7. #17
    Senior Member jono's Avatar
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    Dinaria des Obeaux hacked up at Cork on Sunday winning by 29 lengths and looked good. She was another of the ex Mullins horses that is now with Elliott.

    Personally I've been more taken with Defi du Seuil over Landofhopeandglory so far. If it was between the 2 come March i'd expect Geragthy to side with the Hobbs runner and beat him - just looks a really classy and mature horse already at this stage.

    I have little engagement with the flat (i'd rather review the past seasons national hunt season and start building up an antepost portfolio for the next season in the summer months so bar ratings and hear say I can't really comment on the flat horses now with Joseph but I would be amazed if there's not another out of that amount of horses that is either on par or ahead of LOHAG. It's the only reason i've held off backing DDS so far.

    For the Fred Winter, isn't it going to be obvious as soon as a horse is entered that it is a plot job.... I can see a JP horse going off near evens for that haha
    Even with the amount of potential talent he'll have a job to beat Paul Nicolls recent Fred Winter record...

    2015:

    1st - Qualando
    2nd - Bouvreuil
    5th - All Yours

    Exacta paid 481.40

    2016: (albeit fortunate with Voix du Reve & Campeador falling at the last)

    1st - Diego du Charmil
    2nd - Romain de Senam

    Exacta paid 141.20

    2014:

    2nd - Katgary
    4th - Keltus

    2013:

    2nd - Caid Du Berlais
    3rd - Ptit Zig

  8. #18
    Senior Member Kevloaf's Avatar
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    Trainer of Defi Du Seuil has noted that he might be a soft ground horse.

    Not in the game of laying ante post and certainly not at these prices but I don't think either will be on my radar on the day
    Last edited by Kevloaf; 12-16-2016 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lessey's Avatar
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    Where did you hear or read that Kevloaf?

    I've been really taken by DDS, think he's far ahead of LOHAG Probably prematurely but I thought he travelled and jumped superbly last time...too well for a horse looking for soft or slower, but I'm sure Phillip Hobbs knows better than me

  10. #20
    Senior Member Kevloaf's Avatar
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    I read it as a trainer comment. Just had a brief look and he mentions soft ground at Chepstow over Xmas wouldn't be a problem for DDS but it was definitely a more specific comment about good ground ... I'll try and find it tonight.


    Sword Fighter and Housesofparliment are out over Christmas ... I'm expecting a big shake up in this market

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