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Ryanair 2020

The Ryanair is one of my favourite races of the year, it'd be a travesty of they got rid of it. Too many horses fall into the middle ground between 2m and 3m2f so why should they be hindered stepping up or going back in trip. Some horses are speed merchants, some are stayers with great stamina, but plenty horses have a bit of both and fall somewhere along the middle between the two. That's why the Ryanair is one of my favourites, perfect blend of speed and stamina.
 
I quite enjoy the Ryanair, but if ALtior were to run in it we might as well pack up and go home for truly the doom that was forecast on a 4 day festival will have come to pass
 
Altior said:
The Ryanair is one of my favourite races of the year, it'd be a travesty of they got rid of it. Too many horses fall into the middle ground between 2m and 3m2f so why should they be hindered stepping up or going back in trip. Some horses are speed merchants, some are stayers with great stamina, but plenty horses have a bit of both and fall somewhere along the middle between the two. That's why the Ryanair is one of my favourites, perfect blend of speed and stamina.
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Would you like a 2m4f Championship Hurdle race for the ones not fast enough for 2miles but not enough stamina for 3m?



Honestly, I think you're missing the point. At CHELTENHAM, we don't need to know which is the best horse with a "nice blend of speed and stamina"..... we want to see THE BEST fast horse, and THE BEST staying horse..... if you're neither of them, FINE, just don't dilute the festival.


I think the following festivals would benefit too.




Anyway, more likely we go to 5 days and as long as we find the winner it'll be fine.






A race I have had no bet in yet as a single though.... as I don't care which Frodon equivilant no-hoper ends up here.


The fact I like Min speaks volumes.... a shining example of a horse who isn't Championship class.
 
Kevloaf said:
The fact I like Min speaks volumes.... a shining example of a horse who isn't Championship class.
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If Altior didn’t exist Min would be heralded(would have beat BDA in a Supreme, an 11 length winner of a QMCC), to act like he isn’t championship class is asinine, he’s been the second best 2m chaser for the last 3 years. If he isn’t championship class then why do we even run these races as only about 5 horses in training could be deemed championship class.


The difference between championship hurdles and fences at Cheltenham is the gold cup is 3m2 and the Stayers is 3m. How many horses can’t hack the extra 2f?

If the Stayers was the same distance as the GC I’m sure there would be an argument for it.
 
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Hurricane fly said:
If Altior didn’t exist Min would be heralded, to act like he isn’t championship class is asinine, he’s been the second best 2m chaser for the last 3 years. If he isn’t championship class then why do we even run these races as only about 5 horses in training could be deemed championship class.


The difference between championship hurdles and fences at Cheltenham is the gold cup is 3m2 and the Stayers is 3m. How many horses can’t hack the extra 2f?

If the Stayers was the same distance as the GC I’m sure there would be an argument for it.
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If Saint Calvados beat Altior 25L he'd be heralded. Stupid argument.

He hasn't been better than Un De Sceaux either :p ---- and I should have said "Championship winning class" not Championship class, of course he's worthy of running.


.....and you are missing the point IF Min had run in the Ryanair, would that have been better? NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.


Min shouldn't ever be heralded a Champion...just like Frodon shouldn't.


There isn't one single winner of a Ryanair that I wouldn't have preferred to run in the QMCC or Gold Cup.

Not one.
 
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Just because you would have preferred it doesn’t mean that it’s right for the horse, having an intermediate trip because of the additional distance of the GC is not unreasonable to me. If the GC was 3m I would see the argument more

No difference to the 200m in athletics, a lot of athletes can run in the 100/200 or the 200/400 but excel in the 200 rather than the extremities and it doesn’t make it any lesser an event
 
2019 - Frodon - Won over GC C&D in the build up to winning the Ryanair..... 100% would have been a great addition to the race.
2018 - Balko Des Flos - Bottled the Gold Cup
2017 - Un De Sceaux ----- Barbaric to say he's not best over 2 miles, should run in the QMCC every year.
2016 - Vautour - I love this horse, love love love love love.... his win was amazing, but it'd have been LOADS more exciting if he went for the Gold Cup like they'd planned
2015 - Uxizandre - Not that great but would have been fun in the QMCC if this option wasn't here
2014 - Dynaste - Handicapper anyway :p
2013 - Cue Card - Ready or not, he was clearly good enough to be involved in Gold Cups


You must see my point?





Have the intermediate trip.... just not at Cheltenham that week.
 
Hurricane fly said:
Just because you would have preferred it doesn’t mean that it’s right for the horse, having an intermediate trip because of the additional distance of the GC is not unreasonable to me. If the GC was 3m I would see the argument more

No difference to the 200m in athletics, a lot of athletes can run in the 100/200 or the 200/400 but excel in the 200 rather than the extremities and it doesn’t make it any lesser an event
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I've got a great theory for how I'd want the Olympics to be fair....

One entry per nation, but they have to perform ALL the events.... to find out who the BEST is at Sport in general.

None of this hoarding medals for well-off countries.

I reckon Andy Murray would be the GBR's best chance
 
I see your point, but you can make an argument that most of those horses have been seen at their best over the intermediate trip.

Vautour - I would have his JLT as one of the most impressive victories in memory, would rank it and his Ryanair above his KG 2nd
BDF - in reality a bit of a freak win, whalloped over 3m since, his Christmas victory prior to this was an odd race and not one I would use for form
Frodon - beat EE a length over GC C&D(who was whacked 30 lengths in thee GC) his most impressive weight carrying victories have been over 2m4 at Cheltenham
Uxizandre - ran over 2m twice and was thrashed before the festival so nothing to suggest he would have been competitive in the slightest

UDS - I will give you


Maybe it’s because it’s always been a part of the festival while I’ve been a fan and I’m a big fan of the Melling Chase aswell but I’d stick to my point of if the GC was 3m then the Ryanair is pointless, but nobody wants that(me included) so there is a place for it
 
The fact the GC is over further than 3m does lend itself to the case for the Ryanair being there, I do see that.

The JLT would be worse however you can forgive it at Novice level... no-one ever really cares about a 'Champion' Novice Chaser... I'd argue I'd have loved Vautour to clash against UDS when they won JLT/Arkle....



I'm just waffling about what I'd want to see in a perfect world.

Vetrans chases, greys only, mares only chases, intermediate championship hurdle events.... it's all different scales of the same point I'm making.
 
They should have left it as a grade 2.
Like the mares hurdle as well.
It'll get worse when the mares all go for the new race too.

If it was a grade 2 then Grade 1 winners would have to run with penalties then.
would potentially push them to other races. or if they think it's their best trip then so be it, run with 5lb more or whatever.
But it's done now.
They seem to be obsessed with making more grade one races for some reason.
 
Kev, do you want rid of the Ryanair full stop or just as a championship race potentially?
 
jonthehammer said:
Kev, do you want rid of the Ryanair full stop or just as a championship race potentially?
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I think Kev is just anti dilution and I’m with him.
The Ryanair has produced some great races and is a genuine G1 over the intermediate trip, but predicting runners and riders is an impossible task even a fortnight out let alone in November making it an horrific AP prospect...
 
I agree Ista on it being a poor AP betting medium. If we are looking for long range antepost bets then generally it's been tricky to build a book for the Ryanair. Maybe we should focus on other races instead. That may dilute (though not erase) any distress anyone has about the race. Save any serious betting on it for Festival week.

From my own AP book I've thought Defi Du Seuil the perfect horse for the Ryanair and backed him in March for it., following trainer comments after winning the JLT. Now he has Tingle Creek run, so may choose 2M route all season. :grumpy: Fongers crossed they revert back to original plan :)
 
Altior said:
The Ryanair is one of my favourite races of the year, it'd be a travesty of they got rid of it. Too many horses fall into the middle ground between 2m and 3m2f so why should they be hindered stepping up or going back in trip. Some horses are speed merchants, some are stayers with great stamina, but plenty horses have a bit of both and fall somewhere along the middle between the two. That's why the Ryanair is one of my favourites, perfect blend of speed and stamina.
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Altior has pretty much summed up my thoughts on the race. Surprised so many are against it myself.

2m to 3m2f is simply too big a gap nowadays. Horse races all year at the intermediate trip, so to have the pinnacle of the season without a race at thew same distance would be wrong imo. To make horses step down or up 5f against specialists at that distance would be harsh.
 
jonthehammer said:
Kev, do you want rid of the Ryanair full stop or just as a championship race potentially?
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Make it a grade 2 would satisfy me.

Still a festival winner so still counts for everyone who tries, but would encourage perople to go for the actual Championship races.
 
Pendil said:
Itsa great race guys not a bloody mares hurdle lookalike. If you aren't successful in it why don't you say so!
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About Pendil

<dl><dt>Biography:
</dt><dd>Gone to chelt for about 30 years but not anymore _ too trying. One of the lookers here for couple years now ready to joln in
</dd></dl>

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I see..... I'm perfectly happy to post my Ryanair record for you Pendil?

I can assure you how much I'm up from the race does not change my opinion on whether I'd want it there.





Good luck to you though, 9 posts in and having a pop :p
 
Kevloaf said:
About Pendil

<dl><dt>Biography:
</dt><dd>Gone to chelt for about 30 years but not anymore _ too trying. One of the lookers here for couple years now ready to joln in
</dd></dl>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see..... I'm perfectly happy to post my Ryanair record for you Pendil?

I can assure you how much I'm up from the race does not change my opinion on whether I'd want it there.





Good luck to you though, 9 posts in and having a pop :p
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Yes Pendil, I much prefer that to the sycophant's :)
 
Kevloaf said:
About Pendil

<dl><dt>Biography:
</dt><dd>Gone to chelt for about 30 years but not anymore _ too trying. One of the lookers here for couple years now ready to joln in
</dd></dl>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see..... I'm perfectly happy to post my Ryanair record for you Pendil?

I can assure you how much I'm up from the race does not change my opinion on whether I'd want it there.





Good luck to you though, 9 posts in and having a pop :p
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If you bothered to post during normal hours you could at least return some fire :devilish:
 
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