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Thread: Jockey Chat

  1. #1
    Champion Fat Jockey (Moderator) Kevloaf's Avatar
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    Jockey Chat

    Been plenty of Barry Bashing on the RSA thread recently.

    All good hearted fun and debate, but so we don't completely take over the RSA thread, let's have specific thread to moan about jockeys that we don't like





    I'm currently defending Barry, but can I name 10 better off the top of my head right now.... hmm......


    Rachel Blackmore will be in literally everybodies list.... and Robbie Power too.....

    Who else? Super Davy Russell.... Jack Kennedy? Paul Townend? (Debatable?) Richard Johnson perhaps?
    Oh Harry Cobden I like him.




    I'm not sure Nico De Boinville, Darryl Jacob, Bryony Frost, David Mullins, Danny Mullins, Sam Twister are better?


    Who am I missing?

  2. #2
    Professional Fat Jockey (and self-proclaimed Voice of Reason) quevega's Avatar
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    It's a bit like referees, and easier to list the one you don't like.
    But however objective we might like to think we are, their will always be a bias, due to our individual experiences.

    I've not been a big fan of Barry's for the last three or four years, and I think he peaked when he won on Jezki & More of That (he also tipped up the each way double on a preview night).
    Had 15pts on Annie Power, and similar on the fly, so wasn't thrilled.

    But he suffered a couple of bad falls and I became convinced he had lost a bit of bottle, his rides appeared to be much more conservative and careful and led to being positioned wide and held up more than I'd like. And in a finish he would often steady the horse a little too much and make sure (but lose vital momentum, like on Glenloe)

    However, I have not noticed these habits half as much in the last 12 months or so, and he was not at fault for the Champ fall the other day IMO.

    Used to hate how Waley Cohen rode Long Run (think Francombe ripped his technique to shreds once), but he is brilliant over the aintree National fences.

    STD - The legs wobbling does my head in as it surely has no positive effect.

    A bit like the flailing arms that some do (Fitzgerald was guilty of this) just wild flailing like he'd just took an E and they'd just started playing.... Orbital's 'Chime' over the loudspeaker.

  3. #3
    Professional Fat Jockey jack1092's Avatar
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    Worth remembering how badly Jack Kennedy rode Cheltenham last year.......well if we are wanting to bash BG over Champ not being able to jump

    On the matter of better jockeys than BG, it's hard as he isn't always consistent, i think he rides a big race brilliantly but not always the novice hurdles earlier in the season etc. Probably down to his colours he's riding for of course.
    Last edited by jack1092; 01-06-2020 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Professional Fat Jockey archie's Avatar
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    From the RSA thread:

    Most jockeys will ride an adequate race on most horses.
    Most jockeys will make a mistake from time to time.
    Better jockeys get to ride better horses because they are better jockeys.
    Because they are better horses they are more likely to be prominent near the end of a race and mistakes will be magnified in public perception.

    *****

    Individual jockeys get on well with individual horses - Frodon/Bryony Frost.

    Individual jockeys tend to be good on certain types of horses - I always thought that Davy Russell gave a good education to novice chasers.

    Individual jockeys are the flavour of the month and are forgiven anything - Rachel Blackmore lost a stirrup on the flat in the Savills and it probably cost Monalee the race. No pelters for that, just applause because she got so close to Delta Work.

    Statistics, as ever, can be misleading. You can argue that strike rate should only be viewed alongside return to level stakes betting because the better jockeys ride the better horses. Any measure of a jockey can be argued. For instance, the latest jockeys table in Ireland shows:
    Rides/Winners/Prize-money
    P Townend 242/75/1,394,638
    D Russell 258/53/1,048,428
    R Blackmore 365/49/1,256,173
    D O'Keefe 347/46/747,263
    S Flanagan 403/35/796,140

    Betting based on jockeys is subjective and emotion based but that doesn't make it invalid.

    In terms of jump jockeys, they view retirement in different ways. Ruby was looking for the right opportunity once he'd come off Al Boum Photo in the RSA. Noel Fehily came to a conclusion in a short space of time. Talking to my old trainer (and National winning jockey), Graham Thorner, he literally woke up one morning and decided that he'd had enough. The thing they all want is to go out on their own terms but they mostly recognise that the older you are the less you bounce and the longer it takes to recover from injury. Barry Geraghty will know that he may not have that long left but he's overcome personal demons and is in a job that he loves. I wondered if he'd come back from his Aintree fall but he has so he obviously wants to remain in control of his own destiny. I wish him a safe passage.

  5. #5
    Stable Fat Jockey Old Vic's Avatar
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    Most jockeys will ride an adequate race on most horses.
    Most jockeys will make a mistake from time to time.
    Better jockeys get to ride better horses because they are better jockeys.
    Because they are better horses they are more likely to be prominent near the end of a race and mistakes will be magnified in public perception.
    I think this sums it up pretty well. In relation to late race falls I think another couple of things happen.

    1. Tired horses are more prone to mistakes
    2. Most successful sports people (golfers, darts players, jockeys,footballers) are at their best when they are acting from instinct or are in a flow state rather than having time to do whatever it is they do.

    For jockeys momentum is huge - confidence flows down the reins. Jack Kennedy's Christmas a case in point. But I am sure there are plenty of punters out there who still hate Jack. People form opinions and are reluctant to let them go. For jockeys the next loser is only around the corner so the nay sayers only have to bide their time to be "right".

    As a general point I dont think Ruby and Barry have been fully appreciated. When they started riding Pat Taaffe was the leading festival jockey with 25 wins. Ruby finished with 59 and Barry is still going on 38. AP retired on 31.

  6. #6
    Professional Fat Jockey charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    From the RSA thread:

    Most jockeys will ride an adequate race on most horses.
    Most jockeys will make a mistake from time to time.
    Better jockeys get to ride better horses because they are better jockeys.
    Because they are better horses they are more likely to be prominent near the end of a race and mistakes will be magnified in public perception.
    Excellent post IMO. The great jockey debate will go on and on. The sticking point seems to occur between legitimate mistake/blame, and perceived blame due to subjective criticism (which is a bit like an actor you don't find funny - doesn't matter what they're in, what they say or do, it doesn't land). Because jockeys lose far more times than they win (as do most punters), punters often apportion a disproportionate amount of blame onto Jockeys when they have done little wrong, and as you elude to its compounded by better jockeys like Barry's riding horses that are typically a shorter price.

    Personally re BG, if him riding is enough to put you off a horse then I'd suspect there are other reasons not to back said horse in the first place.

  7. #7
    Fat Jockey (ridden out claim) ELEGANTLY TASTED's Avatar
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    McCoy retired a year late, Ruby retired whilst still at the top of his game. Barry is currently 4 years late with his retirement.

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    Champion Fat Jockey (Moderator) Kevloaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELEGANTLY TASTED View Post
    McCoy retired a year late, Ruby retired whilst still at the top of his game. Barry is currently 4 years late with his retirement.
    5 festival winners in that time.
    3 more than Robbie Power?
    Same as Davy Russell

  9. #9
    Professional Fat Jockey charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevloaf View Post
    5 festival winners in that time.
    3 more than Robbie Power?
    Same as Davy Russell
    Perhaps they should all be retired

  10. #10
    Stable Fat Jockey mayo's Avatar
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    Cheltenham Jumps, Current season

    Top jockey wins-rides % 1 stake

    Barry Geraghty 4-17 24 -2.29
    Nico de Boinville 3-11 27 +11.87
    Gavin Sheehan 3-16 19 +8.50
    Paddy Brennan 3-20 15 -5.87
    Miss Gina Andrews 2-4 50 +11.75


    Cheltenham Jumps, Last 5 seasons Filter

    Top jockey wins-rides % 1 stake

    Barry Geraghty 32-187 17 -41.92
    Richard Johnson 25-246 10 -83.11
    Nico de Boinville 24-122 20 +57.61
    Paddy Brennan 19-161 12 +1.25
    Aidan Coleman 19-176 11 -30.04
    Last edited by mayo; 01-07-2020 at 01:31 PM.

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