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Two-Year Olds with potential for the 2020 Classics

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  • #16
    Originally posted by quevega View Post
    Siskin is probably the best we've seen so far.
    Agreed on Siskin being best so far. Defo not a bet for anything in England at the moment as his trainer tends to want to run in Ireland wherever possible. Get Lyons form in England is 0-36 in the past five years, which probably explains the view to stay at home when he can.
    Last edited by Saxon Warrior; 1 July 2019, 09:09 PM.
    "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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    • #17
      Hampton Fox I see Andy Holding made a very strong call for Visinari yesterday both in the July Stakes and the 2000 Guineas next year:



      Bit of a shame as I was on the cusp of following you in on both but top prices now long gone.

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      • #18
        RAFFLE PRIZE put up an impressive performance back over 6F and with a Group 2 penalty.

        Mark Johnston has no qualms that she is a 1000 Guineas filly, with her next race seeing her taking on the colts in a Group 1. No doubt the Moyglare over 7F could be on the agenda too.

        An OR of 111 and an RPR of 111 already makes her good enough to be placed in many 1000 Guineas and is higher then Hermosa’s OR and RPR before she won this seasons 1000 Guineas.

        I couldn’t believe that the 33/1 for the classic stood until today, now she is 25/1 biggest, which for me is a massive price for a filly rated so highly.

        She is very much part of my 1000 Guineas portfolio along with Summer Romance and Albigna.
        "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

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        • #19
          Hamptonfox, the fact that she's winning over 5f and 6f wouldn't excite me massively. Ballydoyle will have something up their sleeve i'm sure.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jack1092 View Post
            Hamptonfox, the fact that she's winning over 5f and 6f wouldn't excite me massively. Ballydoyle will have something up their sleeve i'm sure.
            The last Mark Johnston winner of the Queen Mary was good enough to win it... so winning over 5f and 6f can't really be used as a stick to beat her with yet?

            I think 25/1 under estimates her - as you say, "Ballydoyle will have something up their sleeve".... and AOB and Coolmore do dominate, but very hard to ever find value there when it's everybodies starting point.


            25/1 is fair enough...


            I can't see myself backing anything ante post that doesn't end in March... in this case, I'd rather have the evidence on track IF she is good enough, as she'll still be under rated because AOB is odds on to have the fav regardless of form

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            • #21
              I think it’s a certainty that if a Ballydoyle filly had the profile of RAFFLE PRIZE including two Group 2 wins, the last one with a penalty, that she would be around 6/1 for the 1000 Guineas. So I am pleased she is with Mark Johnston and the price she is.

              I love backing AOB horses ante post when I see an opportunity. I haven’t seen one yet, colt or filly for the classics next year. I am sure there will be plenty in the second half of the season to look closely at and I hope to recognise which ones they are, quickly enough to get a good price.
              "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Kevloaf View Post
                I thought Pinatubo was superb, and then on reflection feel like he's an absolute classic case of a horse being more forward than his peers at this time of year - and I am not even sure he'll be better than Lope Y Fernandez by the end of the season, let alone next year.


                My ears pricked up when James Willoughby said on Luck on Sunday that Visinari could be an absolute superstar based on the numbers from his debut...


                I certainly won't be backing anything ante post for anything next flat season though...not with 28 races to pick from in March 2020
                My only antepost bet on the flat is Visinari for the 2000 Guineas next year at 50s.

                Solely on the stuff the time and sectional experts were saying. One of the experts on stride after Visinaris debut said his stride has only been bettered in length once in the last two seasons and that was Cracksman.

                Bit gutted to see him beaten last week tbh.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Middle_Of_March View Post
                  My only antepost bet on the flat is Visinari for the 2000 Guineas next year at 50s.

                  Solely on the stuff the time and sectional experts were saying. One of the experts on stride after Visinaris debut said his stride has only been bettered in length once in the last two seasons and that was Cracksman.

                  Bit gutted to see him beaten last week tbh.
                  He didn't lose a lot in defeat really... but the step up in trip does need to bring out that improvement (which seems to be widely accepted that it will) if he's at 7f next time.

                  You'd expect a mile to be in his grasp by next year.

                  50/1 is a nice price for the 2000 Guineas, I'm not falling over myself at 25/1 now although it's not bad.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hamptonfox View Post
                    I think it’s a certainty that if a Ballydoyle filly had the profile of RAFFLE PRIZE including two Group 2 wins, the last one with a penalty, that she would be around 6/1 for the 1000 Guineas. So I am pleased she is with Mark Johnston and the price she is.

                    I love backing AOB horses ante post when I see an opportunity. I haven’t seen one yet, colt or filly for the classics next year. I am sure there will be plenty in the second half of the season to look closely at and I hope to recognise which ones they are, quickly enough to get a good price.
                    Pricewise that's very true. However, that's surely because they are very adept + dominant at winning classics.

                    Quotes like this from MJ wouldn't fill me with confidence about a mile!

                    12Jul19 Newmarket (July) (6GF, RPR 111)

                    Stepping up to six was a little bit of a question mark and the second horse (Daahyeh) had beaten her first time out and was talk of the town. First time out Raffle Prize showed fantastic speed and just got tired. We hoped we could turn the tables and she clearly looked better over six. She's won two Group 2s so I think we'll have a shot at a Group 1 next - Mark Johnston, trainer.


                    Originally posted by Kevloaf View Post
                    The last Mark Johnston winner of the Queen Mary was good enough to win it... so winning over 5f and 6f can't really be used as a stick to beat her with yet?

                    I think 25/1 under estimates her - as you say, "Ballydoyle will have something up their sleeve".... and AOB and Coolmore do dominate, but very hard to ever find value there when it's everybodies starting point.


                    25/1 is fair enough...


                    I can't see myself backing anything ante post that doesn't end in March... in this case, I'd rather have the evidence on track IF she is good enough, as she'll still be under rated because AOB is odds on to have the fav regardless of form
                    When he says the likes of the quote i put above i'd probably say the distance is a worry yep!

                    Agree on AOB for sure. I wouldn't be backing anything either for the classics, it is interesting though that AOB's 2yo fillies haven't been winning with regularity yet. Quite a few of the decent ones do tend to run later, but i think it was Tony Keenan who pointed out the poorish start they've had with their fillies.

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