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Two-Year Olds with potential for the 2020 Classics

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  • Two-Year Olds with potential for the 2020 Classics

    After the Royal Ascot Meeting is a good time for an early look at potential classic horses for next year.

    I’m not convinced that we saw anything last week for the ante-post portfolio. There are some likely types running in Ireland over the Irish Derby weekend this weekend.

    The fillies Group 2 on a Friday afternoon has Albigna and Peace Charter entered at 5-day decs.

    The colts Group 2 on Saturday has Siskin and Monarch Of Egypt entered.

    Overall we should be wiser if they all run.

    My own favourite since his Newmarket debut is VISINARI, and its interesting to see that two colts from that race have now ran with three more entered this week.

    Will To Win (Simon Crisford) finished 5th behind Visinari beaten 15 lengths. Will To Win has since won a maiden by 2&3/4 lengths with an RPR 25 points higher then his run behind Visinari.

    Maysong (Ed Dunlop) finished 8th behind Visinari beaten 22 lengths. Maysong has finished 2nd at Nottingham next time out beaten 3/4 of a length and improved his RPR by 43 points on his run behind Visinari.

    There will be more pointers this week with the following entered

    Daily Times (Gosden) 4th beaten 13&3/4 lengths by Visinari runs in the 5.50pm at Kempton tomorrow.
    Dorset Blue (Hannon) 7th beaten 16 lengths by Visinari is entered at Doncaster on Friday (3.30pm)
    Clareyblue (Meade) 2nd beaten 13 lengths by Visinari is entered at York on Saturday (2.10pm)
    "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

  • #2
    If it's any help, only two of the last thirty UK Classic winning horses ran at Royal Ascot as a 2yo:
    Churchill won the 2016 Chesham and Masar was 3rd in the 2017 Chesham.

    The vast majority of the other 28 hadn't appeared on track at this stage of their 2yo season.

    Comment


    • #3
      Would there be any races in particular later in the season that throw up classic winners Archie?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FaugheenTheMachine View Post
        Would there be any races in particular later in the season that throw up classic winners Archie?
        Not sure, FTM. The flat isn't really my thing but I'm a natural cynic and when I hear throwaway remarks on TV I like to check out the facts and stats.
        I'm very much against the racing of 2yos anyway and I'd tend to wonder whether a horse that is mature enough to win a graded race in June has enough improvement left to be still at the top in a year's time. The recent classic winners have typically made their debut in July/August and make their mark in September/October.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by archie View Post
          If it's any help, only two of the last thirty UK Classic winning horses ran at Royal Ascot as a 2yo:
          Churchill won the 2016 Chesham and Masar was 3rd in the 2017 Chesham.

          The vast majority of the other 28 hadn't appeared on track at this stage of their 2yo season.
          That's good cos Pinatubo looked the most likely classic winner I saw all week.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's always fun finding horses to follow but given how TDH, Quorto, Calyx and Ten Sovereigns went this year, i don't think i'd even try to predict next year's classics lol.

            Comment


            • #7
              The fun is finding a 40/1 or 50/1 shot antepost that goes off as 2/1 fav on the day. It’s what I look for in the antepost bets I do over jumps and the flat.
              "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hamptonfox View Post
                After the Royal Ascot Meeting is a good time for an early look at potential classic horses for next year.

                I’m not convinced that we saw anything last week for the ante-post portfolio. There are some likely types running in Ireland over the Irish Derby weekend this weekend.

                The fillies Group 2 on a Friday afternoon has Albigna and Peace Charter entered at 5-day decs.

                The colts Group 2 on Saturday has Siskin and Monarch Of Egypt entered.

                Overall we should be wiser if they all run.

                My own favourite since his Newmarket debut is VISINARI, and its interesting to see that two colts from that race have now ran with three more entered this week.

                Will To Win (Simon Crisford) finished 5th behind Visinari beaten 15 lengths. Will To Win has since won a maiden by 2&3/4 lengths with an RPR 25 points higher then his run behind Visinari.

                Maysong (Ed Dunlop) finished 8th behind Visinari beaten 22 lengths. Maysong has finished 2nd at Nottingham next time out beaten 3/4 of a length and improved his RPR by 43 points on his run behind Visinari.

                There will be more pointers this week with the following entered

                Daily Times (Gosden) 4th beaten 13&3/4 lengths by Visinari runs in the 5.50pm at Kempton tomorrow.
                Dorset Blue (Hannon) 7th beaten 16 lengths by Visinari is entered at Doncaster on Friday (3.30pm)
                Clareyblue (Meade) 2nd beaten 13 lengths by Visinari is entered at York on Saturday (2.10pm)
                Update:
                Daily Times was beaten a Neck into 2nd at Kempton.
                Dorset Blue didn’t take up his Entry at Doncaster for Friday
                "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hamptonfox View Post
                  The fun is finding a 40/1 or 50/1 shot antepost that goes off as 2/1 fav on the day. It’s what I look for in the antepost bets I do over jumps and the flat.
                  Agree HF, it is fun, i picked out AVD for the 2000g instead of the Derby after his win at Killarney. Sadly the wrong classic. I thought after Saxon had won over a mile as a 2yo it was possible he'd follow the same path.

                  The Tyros stakes has a good record for pointing a good horse out. Winners have been:

                  Anthony Van Dyck
                  The Pentagon
                  Churchill
                  Deauville
                  Gleneagles
                  Zoffany
                  Cape Blanco

                  Worth seeing what he send there this year.

                  I like this thread, love following 2yos for the season + trying to work out what they'll do at 3!

                  Tonight's first maiden has a habit of throwing a good one too:

                  Peach Tree
                  Happily
                  Rehana
                  Alice Springs
                  Last edited by jack1092; 27 June 2019, 09:29 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by quevega View Post
                    That's good cos Pinatubo looked the most likely classic winner I saw all week.
                    I thought Pinatubo was superb, and then on reflection feel like he's an absolute classic case of a horse being more forward than his peers at this time of year - and I am not even sure he'll be better than Lope Y Fernandez by the end of the season, let alone next year.


                    My ears pricked up when James Willoughby said on Luck on Sunday that Visinari could be an absolute superstar based on the numbers from his debut...


                    I certainly won't be backing anything ante post for anything next flat season though...not with 28 races to pick from in March 2020

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Had to like the runs for ALBIGNA and SUMMER ROMANCE over the last 24-hours, both have moved to the head of the 1000 Guineas market, with much bigger moves than those victorious at Royal Ascot.

                      ALBIGNA cut from 40/1 before winning a Group 2 in Ireland last night. Now 16/1 (apart from B365 kindly going 20/1), she clearly needed more than the 6F of the race yesterday, and trainer states 7F and even 8F this year, with Group 1 target mentioned next time out.

                      SUMMER ROMANCE cut from 33/1 to 16/1 after demolishing the Listed Empress Stakes at Newmarket this afternoon. Bookies running for cover and she is now the 1000 Guineas fav at 16/1, with Laddies going as low as 8/1.
                      "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Summer Romance looks absolutely top drawer.

                        The narrative that Godolphin horses don't train on is so hard to explain... but 16/1 seems very fair still considering you know she'll handle the dip

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Summer Romance is a Kingman filly, and half-sister to Clie Brittain’s last really good Group 1 filly Rizeena.

                          Rizeena’s sire was Iffraaj and at two she:

                          WON the Group 2 Queen Mary - 5F
                          2nd in the Group 2 Duke Of Cambridge - 6F
                          3rd in the Group 1 Prix Morny - 6F (against the colts)
                          WON the Group 1 Moyglare - 7F
                          2nd in the Group 1 Filles Mile - 8F

                          At three she WON the Group 1 Coronation Stakes at Royal Ascot, and was a close 2nd to older fillies in two further Group 1’s, the Falmouth Stakes and the Matron Stakes.

                          Summer Romance is by Kingman who is turning out to be a formidable sire, and has bred quality milers like King Of Comedy.
                          I think the sire has a real quality filly here, and she could be a Group 1 filly. Backed her for the 1000 Guineas at 33/1 before today’s race and also again after the race in multi-bets ante post at 14/1.
                          "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hamptonfox View Post
                            After the Royal Ascot Meeting is a good time for an early look at potential classic horses for next year.

                            I’m not convinced that we saw anything last week for the ante-post portfolio. There are some likely types running in Ireland over the Irish Derby weekend this weekend.

                            The fillies Group 2 on a Friday afternoon has Albigna and Peace Charter entered at 5-day decs.

                            The colts Group 2 on Saturday has Siskin and Monarch Of Egypt entered.

                            Overall we should be wiser if they all run.

                            My own favourite since his Newmarket debut is VISINARI, and its interesting to see that two colts from that race have now ran with three more entered this week.

                            Will To Win (Simon Crisford) finished 5th behind Visinari beaten 15 lengths. Will To Win has since won a maiden by 2&3/4 lengths with an RPR 25 points higher then his run behind Visinari.

                            Maysong (Ed Dunlop) finished 8th behind Visinari beaten 22 lengths. Maysong has finished 2nd at Nottingham next time out beaten 3/4 of a length and improved his RPR by 43 points on his run behind Visinari.

                            There will be more pointers this week with the following entered

                            Daily Times (Gosden) 4th beaten 13&3/4 lengths by Visinari runs in the 5.50pm at Kempton tomorrow.
                            Dorset Blue (Hannon) 7th beaten 16 lengths by Visinari is entered at Doncaster on Friday (3.30pm)
                            Clareyblue (Meade) 2nd beaten 13 lengths by Visinari is entered at York on Saturday (2.10pm)
                            Update
                            Daily Times was a close second at Kempton (3rd was 3 lengths back) on Wednesday with his RPR improving from 52 to 78.
                            Clareyblue was a close second at York (3rd was 6 lengths back) on Saturday with his RPR improving from 58 to 83.

                            That’s four runners from Visinari’s maiden, all finished first or close second next time out, and their RPRs improved by 25, 43, 26 and 25 points.

                            Visinari’s RPR was 98, an improvement of anywhere near 25 not next time out but before the season end would put him at a Group 1 class. Really interesting runner next time out.
                            "Journeys to Glory, breathing in his head".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Siskin is probably the best we've seen so far.

                              Comment

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