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  1. #11
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    It's incredibly iffy doing a general chase mark based on performances over cross country or National fences. That's one of the reasons that the National handicap is individually crafted.
    There's a recent tendency for marks to have a big race bias that seems all wrong to me. The last two or three King Georges have been badly overrated and there's no way in the world that the Gold Cup was worth 175.

    This doesn't take away from Tiger Roll being a smashing little horse who is a credit to himself and his connections.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    It's incredibly iffy doing a general chase mark based on performances over cross country or National fences. That's one of the reasons that the National handicap is individually crafted.
    To illustrate my point, Cadmium has gone up to 162 just 10 weeks after he finished 4th at Leopardstown off 147.

  3. #13
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevloaf View Post
    O'Leary said he'll go for the Cross Country and would retire on the spot.

    I don't think he's an ante-post proposition now... absolutely any set back at all and he'll be retired.

    Legendary horse already.
    I hate how over used the word 'legend' is but Tiger Roll is the living embodiment of what a legend is. Wouldn't carry a bean of my money at 7/4 but were he to make it to Cheltenham next year and win the cross country in the way he did this year, then i'd cheer him home with a smile on my face.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    yep, he was already provisionally on 167 in UK after cheltenham.
    reckon UK handicapper will go couple pounds higher.

  6. #16
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    No bigger Tiger fans than me....have watched the re-run of the National once or twice

    Even if he had highest rating would not be sure about GC route personally......Tiger's jumping style is low and clips tops and it works fantastically on CC and National course.....but he did hit a few when won the 4m

    And if he were to win another National, he would be as famous in history as Arkle and very few others as a true great

    Will cheer him wherever he turns up......he and rise of Bryony Frost (and Rachel Blackmore) are best things happened to National Hunt in years

  7. #17
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    In the impossible and meaningless arguement about "which horse is better than which".... where would people put Tiger Roll in a head to head with Red Rum?



    Red Rum with a GN record of 11221 when the races was 'less competitive' but 'more of a test' is still an uncomprehendable achievement for me (as a man only following from circa 2010)

    Tiger Roll is the best National Horse in my time but that's hardly worth making statues for....


    Any thoughts?

  8. #18
    There were many better horses that tiger since 2010. Just refer to ratings.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevloaf View Post
    In the impossible and meaningless arguement about "which horse is better than which".... where would people put Tiger Roll in a head to head with Red Rum?



    Red Rum with a GN record of 11221 when the races was 'less competitive' but 'more of a test' is still an uncomprehendable achievement for me (as a man only following from circa 2010)

    Tiger Roll is the best National Horse in my time but that's hardly worth making statues for....


    Any thoughts?
    Peer to peer I'd say Red Rum's achievement is best.
    But Tiger Roll would beat him in a race as I believe the sport and science has advanced so much. So I'd say Tiger is the better horse by a few pounds.
    The difference in fences is an other issue altogether. Impossible to say how each would have compared with regards jumping.

    The Tiger Roll 'jumps low' thing is a bit of a misnomer, as he gets over them economically enough. So if he gets a bigger fence he's probably jump low over them also.

    Although I'd accept his scope may have a lower max height than some. On the other side of that argument it's probably more about athleticism than size I suppose.

    On Mayo's point. I've read a few articles suggesting Tiger's run was best on ratings for over 40 years since Crisp ran Red Rum close off top weight. And I'd go along with that as I can't think of a better one myself.

  10. #20
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8AqzF31kB4

    Pitman explains the ride on Crisp vs Red Rum 1973.
    Track record beaten after 40 years.
    Crisp off 12 stone, red rum 10st 5lb. Lescargot (2 time gold cup winner) 25 lengths back in third.

    Probably the greatest National ever.
    I was 2.

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