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Owner / Trainer Handicap Analysis - 2008 - 2018

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  • #16
    Jonjo O'Neill Handicap Performance 2008 – 2018

    Ultima
    15 / 3 / 2 / 1
    2014 – Holywell 10/1
    2012 - Alfie Sherrin 14/1
    2009 - Wichita Lineman 5/1f

    Close Brothers
    8 / 0 / 1 / 1

    Cross Country (Handicap from 2008 – 2015)
    1 / 0 / 0 / 0

    Coral Cup
    8 / 0 / 0 / 3

    Pertemps
    15 / 1 / 0 / 0
    2013 – Holywell 25/1

    Brown Advisory
    10 / 0 / 3 / 1

    Kim Muir
    19 / 1 / 0 / 1
    2012 – Sunnyhillboy 13/2f

    Martin Pipe
    10 / 0 / 0 / 0

    County Hurdle
    10 / 0 / 0 / 2

    Grand Annual
    8 / 0 / 0 / 1

    Summary

    Total Handicap Runners: 104
    Winners: 5 (4.8%)
    Placed: 10 (10%)
    Losing Favourites: 6 (5.7%)


    3 out of 5 of his winners have been in the Ultima.

    He has never won the Close Brothers, Cross Country, Brown Advisory, Martin Pipe, County Hurdle or Grand Annual. He has sent more runners to the Kim Muir than any other race and had more losing favourites than any other race.

    A £10 level stake across all his handicap runners from 2008-2018 would leave you down £385

    Season / Cheltenham Winners / Handicap Entries / Total NH Runners

    2018 – 0 – 3 - 553
    2017 – 0 – 10 - 689
    2016 – 0 – 17 - 560
    2015 – 0 – 9 - 634
    2014 – 1 – 13 - 810
    2013 – 1 – 11 - 705
    2012 – 2 – 8 - 649
    2011 – 0 – 7 – 750
    2010 – 0 – 12 - 723
    2009 – 1 – 14 - 623
    2008 – 0 – 6 – 716

    Conclusion

    It’s been a quiet few years at Cheltenham for Jonjo with all his winners coming between 2009 – 2014. He had his lowest number of total runners last season and lowest number of Cheltenham handicap entries last year

    Holywell accounts for 2 of his 5 wins in handicaps at Cheltenham. Hardly crept in at 11/22 in the weights in the Pertemps Final and 6/23 in the weights when winning the Ultima. Alfie Sherrin actually was a bit of a plot (which I covered in the JP thread).

    Similarly to others analysed, his ratio of winners to losing favourites is similar with 5 winners and 6 losing favourites (Pipe had 11 losing favourites and 10 winners, Nicholls had 10 losing favourites and 12 winners).

    Outside of Holywell all his winners have been JP MacManus owned. Bar Johns Spirit, all of his losing favourites have also been owned by JP MacManus:

    Alfie Sherrin, Sunnyhillboy – Ultima
    Kia Kaha – Close Brothers
    Colour Squadron, Sunnyhillboy – Close Brothers

    This prompted me to look at horses that are JP owned and non-JP owned

    Ultima – 7 v 8
    Close Brothers – 4 v 4
    Cross Country 1 v 0
    Coral Cup – 5 v 3
    Pertemps – 11 v 4
    Brown Advisory 5 v 5
    Kim Muir 10 v 9
    Martin Pipe 7 v 3
    County 7 v 3
    Grand Annual 8 v 0 (5 for Eastlake)

    63% of his 104 handicap entries have been owned by JP MacManus, with 5/6 of his losing favourites being owned by JP MacManus. I’d say they are more heavily punted than most.

    I've had plenty of great days backing Jonjo's but cant help feeling most of those days are behind me now.

    Comment


    • #17
      Jonjo O'Neil is rubbish.
      The horses he's been given and what he's done with them is poor.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by quevega View Post
        Jonjo O'Neil is rubbish.
        The horses he's been given and what he's done with them is poor.
        He was sensational between 2002-4 and seems to have just tailed off since. Graded wins in last few years also increasingly sparse - his last Grade 1 was More of That in 2014 World Hurdle. I still think he might have one for Jonjo Jr in the Martin Pipe.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mayo View Post
          He was sensational between 2002-4 and seems to have just tailed off since. Graded wins in last few years also increasingly sparse - his last Grade 1 was More of That in 2014 World Hurdle. I still think he might have one for Jonjo Jr in the Martin Pipe.
          His lad is keeping the yard going, looks a good jockey.

          Comment


          • #20
            Will do Henderson tomorrow.

            Comment


            • #21
              Well done Charlie, excellent effort

              Comment


              • #22
                Brillliant thread Charlie. Absolutely superb info. Cheers.

                Would you be able to do Gigginstown if you got the chance. There’s a couple of things I think they have in the handicaps that I’m interested to see if the trends agree with.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Middle_Of_March View Post
                  Brillliant thread Charlie. Absolutely superb info. Cheers.

                  Would you be able to do Gigginstown if you got the chance. There’s a couple of things I think they have in the handicaps that I’m interested to see if the trends agree with.
                  No worries pal. Sure. Henderson, Gigginstown, Mullins on the cards. Il do a trainer analysis alongside the Gigginstown one

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by charlie View Post
                    No worries pal. Sure. Henderson, Gigginstown, Mullins on the cards. Il do a trainer analysis alongside the Gigginstown one
                    Brilliant - thanks again. One of my favourite threads of the year without a doubt.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Gigginstown House Stud Handicap Performance 2008 – 2018

                      Ultima
                      2 / 0 / 0 / 0

                      Close Brothers
                      6 / 0 / 0 / 0

                      Cross Country (Handicap from 2008 – 2015)
                      2 / 1 / 0 / 0
                      2015 – Rivage D’Or 16/1

                      Coral Cup
                      7 / 0 / 1 / 1

                      Pertemps
                      4 / 1 / 0 / 0
                      2018 – Delta Work 6/1

                      Brown Advisory
                      4 / 2 / 0 / 1
                      2017 - Road To Respect 14/1
                      2016 - Empire Of Dirt 16/1

                      Kim Muir
                      3 / 0 / 0 / 1

                      Martin Pipe
                      10 / 4 / 1 / 2
                      2018 – Blow By Blow 11/1
                      2017 – Champagne Classic 12/1
                      2014 – Don Poli 12/1
                      2011 - Sir Des Champs 9/2f

                      County Hurdle
                      8 / 0 / 0 / 0

                      Grand Annual
                      4 / 1 / 0 / 0
                      2014 – Savello 16/1

                      Summary

                      Total Handicap Runners: 50
                      Winners: 9 (18%)
                      Placed: 5 (9.6%)


                      A £10 level stake across all Gigginstown horses would leave you up £665

                      Trainer / Runners / Winners / Place / Beat Fav

                      G Elliott / 22 / 3 / 4 /2
                      W P Mullins / 9 / 2 / 1 / 1
                      A J Martin 5 / 2 / 0 / 0
                      N Meade 3 / 1 / 0 / 0
                      C A Murphy 1 / 1 / 0 / 0

                      Gordon wins or places 31% of all handicaps

                      Races

                      Obviously their record in the Martin Pipe is phenomenal, with 4 of their 10 runners winning the race.

                      One winning favourite in Sir Des Champs. The average price of their other 8 winners is 11/1, hence why the return off £10 level stakes is so high.

                      Never won the Ultima, Close Brothers, Coral Cup, Kim Muir or County Hurdle.

                      Season / Cheltenham Winners / Handicap Entries / Total NH Runners (Ireland)

                      2018 – 2 – 5 - 940
                      2017 – 2 – 8 - 877
                      2016 – 1 – 3 - 653
                      2015 – 1 – 7 - 660
                      2014 – 2 – 3 - 608
                      2013 – 0 – 9 - 504
                      2012 – 0 – 6 - 439
                      2011 – 1 – 6 - 442
                      2010 – 0 – 0 - 318
                      2009 – 0 – 2 - 300
                      2008 – 0 – 1 – 241

                      Conclusion

                      We all know the regard Michael O'Leary holds for handicaps at Cheltenham, but even still, their record is superb. I always think of Gigginstown as mob handed at Cheltenham but they have never sent more than 10 horses handicapping at the festival in one year which I found quite surprising. To put that into perspective, JP McManus sent 155 more horses to handicaps over the last decade than Gigginstown. It is particularly noticeable when you look at the number of horses in Gigginstown's ownership and the number of runners they have each season in Ireland.

                      Their win to run ratio in the last 5 years is very good, to put it lightly. Gordon Elliot now trains 44% of all their entries. Willie had a better strike rate than Gordon (22%) but that's now irrelevant after the fallout over training fees.

                      Have run 3 or less runners in the Ultima (2) and Kim Muir (3), so little interest. Have won the Pertemps (4) and Cross Country (2) once, with 4 or less runners. Again, little interest.

                      Their record in the Martin Pipe and Brown Advisory is superb, having sent 14 runners and won 6 times at an average price of 11/1. I'l be keeping a keen eye out on their horses in these races.

                      Henderson up next

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Great work again Charlie.
                        Have to say I'm surprised at the Giggs M Pipe record, never really consider them as an outfit targeting handicap hurdles but 4 winners in last 8 years is staggering.

                        Will be very useful to see the data compressed into a single bullet point summary sheet, could be invaluable...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Good stuff again Charlie.

                          That Brown Advisory is made for Blow By Blow, and their record in it is very good!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Totally agree - Great stuff Charlie. On the Gigginstown subject , a quick look through,
                            And i see - Brown plate - Mortal @ 16-1.
                            Blow by Blow @ 20-1.

                            Martin pipe - Dallas des pictons @10-1.
                            C. of fleet @10-1.
                            Monbeg W.wide @ 20-1.
                            Felix Desjy @ 20-1.
                            Blow by blow @ 20-1.
                            Choungaya @ 66-1.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BigChaang View Post
                              Totally agree - Great stuff Charlie. On the Gigginstown subject , a quick look through,
                              And i see - Brown plate - Mortal @ 16-1.
                              Blow by Blow @ 20-1.

                              Martin pipe - Dallas des pictons @10-1.
                              C. of fleet @10-1.
                              Monbeg W.wide @ 20-1.
                              Felix Desjy @ 20-1.
                              Blow by blow @ 20-1.
                              Choungaya @ 66-1.
                              Great stuff, thanks BigChaang

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by charlie View Post
                                Gigginstown House Stud Handicap Performance 2008 – 2018

                                Ultima
                                2 / 0 / 0 / 0

                                Close Brothers
                                6 / 0 / 0 / 0

                                Cross Country (Handicap from 2008 – 2015)
                                2 / 1 / 0 / 0
                                2015 – Rivage D’Or 16/1

                                Coral Cup
                                7 / 0 / 1 / 1

                                Pertemps
                                4 / 1 / 0 / 0
                                2018 – Delta Work 6/1

                                Brown Advisory
                                4 / 2 / 0 / 1
                                2017 - Road To Respect 14/1
                                2016 - Empire Of Dirt 16/1

                                Kim Muir
                                3 / 0 / 0 / 1

                                Martin Pipe
                                10 / 4 / 1 / 2
                                2018 – Blow By Blow 11/1
                                2017 – Champagne Classic 12/1
                                2014 – Don Poli 12/1
                                2011 - Sir Des Champs 9/2f

                                County Hurdle
                                8 / 0 / 0 / 0

                                Grand Annual
                                4 / 1 / 0 / 0
                                2014 – Savello 16/1

                                Summary

                                Total Handicap Runners: 50
                                Winners: 9 (18%)
                                Placed: 5 (9.6%)


                                A £10 level stake across all Gigginstown horses would leave you up £665

                                Trainer / Runners / Winners / Place / Beat Fav

                                G Elliott / 22 / 3 / 4 /2
                                W P Mullins / 9 / 2 / 1 / 1
                                A J Martin 5 / 2 / 0 / 0
                                N Meade 3 / 1 / 0 / 0
                                C A Murphy 1 / 1 / 0 / 0

                                Gordon wins or places 31% of all handicaps

                                Races

                                Obviously their record in the Martin Pipe is phenomenal, with 4 of their 10 runners winning the race.

                                One winning favourite in Sir Des Champs. The average price of their other 8 winners is 11/1, hence why the return off £10 level stakes is so high.

                                Never won the Ultima, Close Brothers, Coral Cup, Kim Muir or County Hurdle.

                                Season / Cheltenham Winners / Handicap Entries / Total NH Runners (Ireland)

                                2018 – 2 – 5 - 940
                                2017 – 2 – 8 - 877
                                2016 – 1 – 3 - 653
                                2015 – 1 – 7 - 660
                                2014 – 2 – 3 - 608
                                2013 – 0 – 9 - 504
                                2012 – 0 – 6 - 439
                                2011 – 1 – 6 - 442
                                2010 – 0 – 0 - 318
                                2009 – 0 – 2 - 300
                                2008 – 0 – 1 – 241

                                Conclusion

                                We all know the regard Michael O'Leary holds for handicaps at Cheltenham, but even still, their record is superb. I always think of Gigginstown as mob handed at Cheltenham but they have never sent more than 10 horses handicapping at the festival in one year which I found quite surprising. To put that into perspective, JP McManus sent 155 more horses to handicaps over the last decade than Gigginstown. It is particularly noticeable when you look at the number of horses in Gigginstown's ownership and the number of runners they have each season in Ireland.

                                Their win to run ratio in the last 5 years is very good, to put it lightly. Gordon Elliot now trains 44% of all their entries. Willie had a better strike rate than Gordon (22%) but that's now irrelevant after the fallout over training fees.

                                Have run 3 or less runners in the Ultima (2) and Kim Muir (3), so little interest. Have won the Pertemps (4) and Cross Country (2) once, with 4 or less runners. Again, little interest.

                                Their record in the Martin Pipe and Brown Advisory is superb, having sent 14 runners and won 6 times at an average price of 11/1. I'l be keeping a keen eye out on their horses in these races.

                                Henderson up next
                                Cheers Charlie.

                                I knew their MP record was excellent and that DDP is a bet for that race with their record.

                                But I didn’t realise the Plate record is also very good.

                                Comment

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